My university requires that I take attendance. How should I treat students who arrive late to class?











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I studied many courses and the behaviour of faculty in this particular aspect varies from one another. The following are the behaviours of faculties I observed mostly:




  1. Allowing the latecomer into the class at any time and giving attention to the latecomer.


  2. Allowing the latecomer into the class at any time, but just asks a reason for late and then giving attendance to the latecomer.


  3. Allowing the latecomer into the class, but gives attendance based on the reason the latecomer is saying for late.


  4. Disallowing the latecomer by closing doors or with strict instruction.



So, I came to the impression that it totally depends on the particular faculty. Mostly I observed 1, 2 and 4. I observed 3 very rarely.



But, I need to clear this doubt for myself, when I need to start and teach a class as TA or in some other position.



What is the recommended and proper behaviour towards latecomers?



Note: Attendance is a requirement for the course. A person with above 75% of attendance is eligible to take final exams. A person with a percentage of attendance between 65 and 75 is required to submit a medical certificate. A person with less than 65% of attendance is not allowed to write the exam and has to do recourse.






students attendance







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  • 25




    Please explain what you mean by "giving attendance". Is attendance a requirement for the class? If the student misses the class, what's the consequence? If yes to the above, why? If I have grade 100/100 on the final exam, but I miss all the classes, what will be my final grade? If attendance is not required, why would you, as the TA, care?
    – scaaahu
    2 days ago








  • 2




    Attendance is a requirement. If less attendance student can't able to appear for final examination also.
    – hanugm
    2 days ago






  • 5




    I flagged as primarily opinion based. It depends on the institution and culture. Set a rule. Put it in the syllabus. Eg: class is 1 hour 15 minutes long. If 60% late, count absent. Less is just tardy if you even record that. University sets rule: 6 absences = fail. Department manages/escalates case by case. Professors and TAs are just people. Systems are just systems arguably made to be broken or abused by people and nature. We all abide by time. Choose a path of less resistance and apply effort toward quality instruction and assessments. “Rules were made to be broken.” IMHO
    – ThisClark
    yesterday








  • 6




    Is there any requirement for being awake during the lecture? Do I get attendance if I arrive in time, then go to sleep, and no attendance if I'm late and listen attentively to the lecture?
    – gnasher729
    yesterday






  • 4




    Some people do not understand that institutions exist where recording attendance is mandatory inspite of the age of the students as the government requires a record of attendance as part of the continued issuing of a student visa. If the student does not attend and is expelled from the school, then the visa is cancelled and the student has to leave the country.
    – Solar Mike
    4 hours ago















up vote
21
down vote

favorite
4












I studied many courses and the behaviour of faculty in this particular aspect varies from one another. The following are the behaviours of faculties I observed mostly:




  1. Allowing the latecomer into the class at any time and giving attention to the latecomer.


  2. Allowing the latecomer into the class at any time, but just asks a reason for late and then giving attendance to the latecomer.


  3. Allowing the latecomer into the class, but gives attendance based on the reason the latecomer is saying for late.


  4. Disallowing the latecomer by closing doors or with strict instruction.



So, I came to the impression that it totally depends on the particular faculty. Mostly I observed 1, 2 and 4. I observed 3 very rarely.



But, I need to clear this doubt for myself, when I need to start and teach a class as TA or in some other position.



What is the recommended and proper behaviour towards latecomers?



Note: Attendance is a requirement for the course. A person with above 75% of attendance is eligible to take final exams. A person with a percentage of attendance between 65 and 75 is required to submit a medical certificate. A person with less than 65% of attendance is not allowed to write the exam and has to do recourse.






students attendance







share|improve this question




















  • 25




    Please explain what you mean by "giving attendance". Is attendance a requirement for the class? If the student misses the class, what's the consequence? If yes to the above, why? If I have grade 100/100 on the final exam, but I miss all the classes, what will be my final grade? If attendance is not required, why would you, as the TA, care?
    – scaaahu
    2 days ago








  • 2




    Attendance is a requirement. If less attendance student can't able to appear for final examination also.
    – hanugm
    2 days ago






  • 5




    I flagged as primarily opinion based. It depends on the institution and culture. Set a rule. Put it in the syllabus. Eg: class is 1 hour 15 minutes long. If 60% late, count absent. Less is just tardy if you even record that. University sets rule: 6 absences = fail. Department manages/escalates case by case. Professors and TAs are just people. Systems are just systems arguably made to be broken or abused by people and nature. We all abide by time. Choose a path of less resistance and apply effort toward quality instruction and assessments. “Rules were made to be broken.” IMHO
    – ThisClark
    yesterday








  • 6




    Is there any requirement for being awake during the lecture? Do I get attendance if I arrive in time, then go to sleep, and no attendance if I'm late and listen attentively to the lecture?
    – gnasher729
    yesterday






  • 4




    Some people do not understand that institutions exist where recording attendance is mandatory inspite of the age of the students as the government requires a record of attendance as part of the continued issuing of a student visa. If the student does not attend and is expelled from the school, then the visa is cancelled and the student has to leave the country.
    – Solar Mike
    4 hours ago













up vote
21
down vote

favorite
4









up vote
21
down vote

favorite
4






4





I studied many courses and the behaviour of faculty in this particular aspect varies from one another. The following are the behaviours of faculties I observed mostly:




  1. Allowing the latecomer into the class at any time and giving attention to the latecomer.


  2. Allowing the latecomer into the class at any time, but just asks a reason for late and then giving attendance to the latecomer.


  3. Allowing the latecomer into the class, but gives attendance based on the reason the latecomer is saying for late.


  4. Disallowing the latecomer by closing doors or with strict instruction.



So, I came to the impression that it totally depends on the particular faculty. Mostly I observed 1, 2 and 4. I observed 3 very rarely.



But, I need to clear this doubt for myself, when I need to start and teach a class as TA or in some other position.



What is the recommended and proper behaviour towards latecomers?



Note: Attendance is a requirement for the course. A person with above 75% of attendance is eligible to take final exams. A person with a percentage of attendance between 65 and 75 is required to submit a medical certificate. A person with less than 65% of attendance is not allowed to write the exam and has to do recourse.






students attendance







share|improve this question















I studied many courses and the behaviour of faculty in this particular aspect varies from one another. The following are the behaviours of faculties I observed mostly:




  1. Allowing the latecomer into the class at any time and giving attention to the latecomer.


  2. Allowing the latecomer into the class at any time, but just asks a reason for late and then giving attendance to the latecomer.


  3. Allowing the latecomer into the class, but gives attendance based on the reason the latecomer is saying for late.


  4. Disallowing the latecomer by closing doors or with strict instruction.



So, I came to the impression that it totally depends on the particular faculty. Mostly I observed 1, 2 and 4. I observed 3 very rarely.



But, I need to clear this doubt for myself, when I need to start and teach a class as TA or in some other position.



What is the recommended and proper behaviour towards latecomers?



Note: Attendance is a requirement for the course. A person with above 75% of attendance is eligible to take final exams. A person with a percentage of attendance between 65 and 75 is required to submit a medical certificate. A person with less than 65% of attendance is not allowed to write the exam and has to do recourse.






students attendance




students attendance






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edited 6 hours ago









David Ketcheson

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asked 2 days ago









hanugm

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  • 25




    Please explain what you mean by "giving attendance". Is attendance a requirement for the class? If the student misses the class, what's the consequence? If yes to the above, why? If I have grade 100/100 on the final exam, but I miss all the classes, what will be my final grade? If attendance is not required, why would you, as the TA, care?
    – scaaahu
    2 days ago








  • 2




    Attendance is a requirement. If less attendance student can't able to appear for final examination also.
    – hanugm
    2 days ago






  • 5




    I flagged as primarily opinion based. It depends on the institution and culture. Set a rule. Put it in the syllabus. Eg: class is 1 hour 15 minutes long. If 60% late, count absent. Less is just tardy if you even record that. University sets rule: 6 absences = fail. Department manages/escalates case by case. Professors and TAs are just people. Systems are just systems arguably made to be broken or abused by people and nature. We all abide by time. Choose a path of less resistance and apply effort toward quality instruction and assessments. “Rules were made to be broken.” IMHO
    – ThisClark
    yesterday








  • 6




    Is there any requirement for being awake during the lecture? Do I get attendance if I arrive in time, then go to sleep, and no attendance if I'm late and listen attentively to the lecture?
    – gnasher729
    yesterday






  • 4




    Some people do not understand that institutions exist where recording attendance is mandatory inspite of the age of the students as the government requires a record of attendance as part of the continued issuing of a student visa. If the student does not attend and is expelled from the school, then the visa is cancelled and the student has to leave the country.
    – Solar Mike
    4 hours ago














  • 25




    Please explain what you mean by "giving attendance". Is attendance a requirement for the class? If the student misses the class, what's the consequence? If yes to the above, why? If I have grade 100/100 on the final exam, but I miss all the classes, what will be my final grade? If attendance is not required, why would you, as the TA, care?
    – scaaahu
    2 days ago








  • 2




    Attendance is a requirement. If less attendance student can't able to appear for final examination also.
    – hanugm
    2 days ago






  • 5




    I flagged as primarily opinion based. It depends on the institution and culture. Set a rule. Put it in the syllabus. Eg: class is 1 hour 15 minutes long. If 60% late, count absent. Less is just tardy if you even record that. University sets rule: 6 absences = fail. Department manages/escalates case by case. Professors and TAs are just people. Systems are just systems arguably made to be broken or abused by people and nature. We all abide by time. Choose a path of less resistance and apply effort toward quality instruction and assessments. “Rules were made to be broken.” IMHO
    – ThisClark
    yesterday








  • 6




    Is there any requirement for being awake during the lecture? Do I get attendance if I arrive in time, then go to sleep, and no attendance if I'm late and listen attentively to the lecture?
    – gnasher729
    yesterday






  • 4




    Some people do not understand that institutions exist where recording attendance is mandatory inspite of the age of the students as the government requires a record of attendance as part of the continued issuing of a student visa. If the student does not attend and is expelled from the school, then the visa is cancelled and the student has to leave the country.
    – Solar Mike
    4 hours ago








25




25




Please explain what you mean by "giving attendance". Is attendance a requirement for the class? If the student misses the class, what's the consequence? If yes to the above, why? If I have grade 100/100 on the final exam, but I miss all the classes, what will be my final grade? If attendance is not required, why would you, as the TA, care?
– scaaahu
2 days ago






Please explain what you mean by "giving attendance". Is attendance a requirement for the class? If the student misses the class, what's the consequence? If yes to the above, why? If I have grade 100/100 on the final exam, but I miss all the classes, what will be my final grade? If attendance is not required, why would you, as the TA, care?
– scaaahu
2 days ago






2




2




Attendance is a requirement. If less attendance student can't able to appear for final examination also.
– hanugm
2 days ago




Attendance is a requirement. If less attendance student can't able to appear for final examination also.
– hanugm
2 days ago




5




5




I flagged as primarily opinion based. It depends on the institution and culture. Set a rule. Put it in the syllabus. Eg: class is 1 hour 15 minutes long. If 60% late, count absent. Less is just tardy if you even record that. University sets rule: 6 absences = fail. Department manages/escalates case by case. Professors and TAs are just people. Systems are just systems arguably made to be broken or abused by people and nature. We all abide by time. Choose a path of less resistance and apply effort toward quality instruction and assessments. “Rules were made to be broken.” IMHO
– ThisClark
yesterday






I flagged as primarily opinion based. It depends on the institution and culture. Set a rule. Put it in the syllabus. Eg: class is 1 hour 15 minutes long. If 60% late, count absent. Less is just tardy if you even record that. University sets rule: 6 absences = fail. Department manages/escalates case by case. Professors and TAs are just people. Systems are just systems arguably made to be broken or abused by people and nature. We all abide by time. Choose a path of less resistance and apply effort toward quality instruction and assessments. “Rules were made to be broken.” IMHO
– ThisClark
yesterday






6




6




Is there any requirement for being awake during the lecture? Do I get attendance if I arrive in time, then go to sleep, and no attendance if I'm late and listen attentively to the lecture?
– gnasher729
yesterday




Is there any requirement for being awake during the lecture? Do I get attendance if I arrive in time, then go to sleep, and no attendance if I'm late and listen attentively to the lecture?
– gnasher729
yesterday




4




4




Some people do not understand that institutions exist where recording attendance is mandatory inspite of the age of the students as the government requires a record of attendance as part of the continued issuing of a student visa. If the student does not attend and is expelled from the school, then the visa is cancelled and the student has to leave the country.
– Solar Mike
4 hours ago




Some people do not understand that institutions exist where recording attendance is mandatory inspite of the age of the students as the government requires a record of attendance as part of the continued issuing of a student visa. If the student does not attend and is expelled from the school, then the visa is cancelled and the student has to leave the country.
– Solar Mike
4 hours ago










10 Answers
10






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I use another option:



0) Allow all students in class and do not monitor attendance.



They are adults and they come to learn. As long as they do not disrupt the class they are free to come and go as they please. I do not see which purpose the monitoring of attendance serves. It sends the wrong signal and focuses students on signing the register sheet rather than on the objective of the class.



I do, however, start each class by thanking students who attend and come in time. Latecomers will miss this part.






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  • 19




    Policies are a product of agreement, and as such can be re-negotiated, if they are no longer appropriate or fit for purpose.
    – Dmitry Savostyanov
    2 days ago






  • 8




    Yes, the management agrees that this is the policy and we follow...
    – Solar Mike
    2 days ago






  • 53




    -1 I think this does not answer the question. The question (while poorly written and arguably not a good fit for this site) implies that the OP is at a mandatory-attendance institution, and is too far down the hierarchy to affect that policy. Such policies may come from non-teaching administration or state government and be beyond outside negotiation.
    – Daniel R. Collins
    2 days ago






  • 7




    @DanielR.Collins It is unreasonable to expect the answer to cover the aspects of the situation that was not described in the question. As I said, the OP's comment with extra information appeared after I posted my answer.
    – Dmitry Savostyanov
    yesterday






  • 19




    I think if the OP feels the attendance policy is non negotiably imposed from above, then the lateness policy must come from the same place.
    – emory
    yesterday


















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49
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I'll try to provide an answer in light of the fact that many answers here will come from professors who do not realize how common it is for some college institutions to have mandatory attendance-taking policies. The OP's question is this:




What is the recommended and proper behaviour towards late comers?




My answer would be: Whatever is least disruptive and takes the least time away from focus on the academic subject matter.



Attendance-taking is, historically, an act taken by custodians of young children (elementary or secondary school). As you can see from other answers, many professors are actually aghast at the idea of taking time to track attendance for adult college students -- and rightfully so! However, I understand that the OP is at an institution where attendance-taking is mandatory (possibly via a policy by the academic department, college administration, funding agency, or state government).



Most professors will (I think) agree that attendance-taking is a distraction and painful loss of time from focus on the academic subject matter that we are there to share. So -- granted your institutional parameters -- I think that you should minimize such loss of time as much as possible. Some suggested cases:




  1. If it is in your power to waive attendance-taking, then do so.


  2. If you must take some kind of attendance records, consider whether it is in your power to define what "attendance" means for your course. Perhaps attendance (course participation) is adjudicated by the most recent work submission, or weekly activity in an online discussion board.


  3. If you must take actual attendance in-class, then find the protocol that you spend the least amount of time adjudicating (incl. time on excuses/arguments/challenges, etc.). Perhaps this is easiest via a sign-in sheet, simultaneous with a practice exercise, or at the end of class.







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  • I’m having trouble imagining how a policy requiring instructors to actually take attendance could be enforced. Perhaps installing a turnstile at the door of every classroom, which can be opened only by a student ID card?
    – JeffE
    yesterday






  • 1




    @JeffE Assigned seats and a seating chart make it fairly fast, just mark off the empty seats, or it could be done electronically with classes that use "clicker" response systems during lectures (cue students giving their clicker to their friends to be marked present). It's all still more time consuming than not taking attendance at all.
    – Zach Lipton
    21 hours ago








  • 2




    No, I’m not wondering how to force students to attend, but rather how to force instructors to accurately report attendance, as opposed to just reporting everyone present and getting on with their job.
    – JeffE
    11 hours ago








  • 3




    @JeffE I have heard horror stories where the institution audits the attendance records and follows up on irregularities (such as picture perfect attendance) by questioning the faculty member and the TAs(!) of the course. The reason for the frankly ridiculous audit was supposedly to prepare for an audit by the government, which should be no surprise at all. Amazing what magnifying effect a few layers of bureaucracy can have, isn't it.
    – SolveIt
    7 hours ago






  • 3




    Noone seems to have yet brought up that the reason this is required. The reasoning is related to financial aid fraud. It seems that students are taking out loans and then never attending courses (and failing the course, usually). The federal government believes this behavior is detrimental to both the government and the student (going into debt without getting any educational credits in the end). When a school has a lot of cases of this, the school can get sanctioned and can lose some of its aid. It is paternalistic, but the government also has an interest in spending its money well.
    – Dawn
    2 hours ago


















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15
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In this case, attendance is a requirement mandated from above. You could ask for clarification from the powers that be who set the rule. For example, you could ask ... Is attendance to be recorded at the start, middle, or end of class? In other words, you could push the decision process back up the chain from whence it came.



This approach is likely best done only when you have lots of free time, you have a thick skin, and you just want to annoy your superiors.



The inference is that you have the freedom to define your approach to how you record attendance. Dissecting each of your options, I might see them this way ...



1) You record attendance at the end of class



2) You record attendance at the end of class AND ask the latecomers for excuses that you then ignore anyway



3) You record attendance at the end of class AND ask the latecomers for excuses AND try to parse the excuses based on a matrix that relies on other potentially unclear and arbitrary rules AND use an on-the-spot decision from that ruling to erase attendance



4) You record attendance at the start of class AND shut out latecomers from even entering the class which only serves to annoy the "honest latecomers", stoke your ego, and count attendance twice because the latecomers may also be shut out of the final exam



I hope that, with this analysis, you see the excess overhead and futility of using options 2-4.



Let's presume that you do not have the option to IGNORE taking attendance. Perhaps for example you are mandated to make a report that proves that you did. In this case, I suggest, with the freedom that you have to define attendance, you have two approaches.



Attendance Means You Were Here for the (Majority of the) Lecture



Record attendance at a certain point in time near start of class and then be done with it. Latecomers should be allowed a certain grace, perhaps even to the middle of class. After that grace, they can show up but they will be recorded as having been absent. Attendance then becomes a consistent message, both in what it means and in when it is recorded. You don't bother yourself with policing attendance on-the-spot, either by parsing excuses or by shutting out latecomers.



When you would do as above, figure out how you will handle students who ARE late yet will try to say "I was there by the time the attendance was recorded and you missed me." The clicker system that is oft-used in US classrooms can be great for this ... With due diligence, it should not be easily cheated. Other methods have their pros and cons. In the end, whatever you decide to handle such cases, keep it simple and consistent.



Attendance Means You Were Here by the Time the Lecture Ended



Record attendance at the end of the lecture and be done with it.






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  • 1




    Overall, I like this approach, but I'm a bit unclear on whether the grace period you mention means that folks arriving then will be counted as in-attendance, or just that the door won't be locked against them. (Also, clicker attendance absolutely can be cheated; this came up recently when my institution tried to use them to count votes in faculty meetings, and a CS professor hacked the "trial" vote.)
    – 1006a
    yesterday








  • 2




    It’s pretty easy. I have seen students come to class with eight clickers.
    – JeffE
    yesterday










  • @JeffE I've added "with due diligence" about clickers. Interesting to hear about the ease with which students can find loopholes. Perhaps this means that clickers should come with thumb-print or facial recognition as the only way to activate them.
    – Jeffrey J Weimer
    20 hours ago










  • Interestingly, "whence" already includes "from" merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whence
    – Azor Ahai
    6 mins ago


















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7
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At university level students are adults. It is their choice, their life, their responsibility.



If they decide to come late and miss things this is their choice and their personal consequences. It is not the responsibility of a teacher at university level (Bachelors, Masters of Doctoral) to discipline them as schoolchildren or parents.



The only proviso is that they must not interfere with the learning opportunities of other students in the class by being disruptive. If they arrive late, they should do so discretely and give appropriate apologies if convenient.



I know many students who have family commitments (such as children's doctors appointments) or travel long distances to class and suffer the vagaries of the public transport system. It would be quite unfair and prejudicial to single them out with negative comments.



You should reflect on your attitude to student learning and teaching, and not those of your class.






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  • 4




    The faculty are adults, but will they arrive late? And will they do that often? Faculty tend to be late rarely.... Faculty also have family and commitments...
    – Solar Mike
    2 days ago








  • 2




    It looks like this is a course with mandatory attendance, so that decision has already been taken above OP's level.
    – Federico Poloni
    2 days ago






  • 1




    -1 This does not answer the question, which implies that the OP is at a mandatory attendance-taking institution (possibly by administrative or legal requirement).
    – Daniel R. Collins
    2 days ago






  • 2




    @DanielR.Collins that was added in a comment after my answer, however my answer still stands. Someone who is late has still attended. Its all about respect from both sides of the class.
    – Brian Tompsett - 汤莱恩
    2 days ago






  • 5




    @SolarMike I really hate the narrative that attendance is a sign of “respect”. It is not. Mandatory attendance is asking for compliance, which is not the same thing.
    – JeffE
    23 hours ago


















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3
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While my preferred method is to just leave attendance up to the student entirely, recognizing that "things happen" and "people can learn differently", for the situation in which you must take attendance, you want a method that is painless and flexible.



One way is to require that students give you an index card with their name and date for each class. You can do this for the latecomers only, or actually for everyone. When they come in, they hand you a card. This assumes, of course, a suitable scale. I wouldn't require a card for everyone for 100 students, but for 30 it is fine.



If you want/need to make judgements about excuses, then latecomers can write their reason for lateness on the card.



In this way you don't need to interrupt the class, just collect the cards for later processing. You can also make notations on the cards as the class proceeds if you want to record in-process events of any kind.



My students typically would have cards as a matter of course for note-taking and other in-class activities, but you can provide the cards yourself.



For an especially small class, say a dozen or so, I would just carry one card for each student while I was teaching. I could easily sort the cards into those present and those not and annotate absences on the card after the class ends.



Of course, you may need to worry about people turning in cards for others, but a count will tell you if that has happened. And, of course, you must deal with "early leavers" with a different method, but if you know the name-face correspondences it isn't too hard to handle.






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    up vote
    2
    down vote













    Students are adults. It is their life and their choice. In some countries they pay thousands of dollars to be there which means they do care about being there. Maybe they are late because of a doctors appointment, they have to take care of their own children, they have to take care of their parents, they can't afford to live in the same city as the university and have to commute and got stuck in traffic. It is none of your business what their reason might be. Your job is to just teach and not to be their parents and not to teach them about responsibility. If they miss too much of class they will face the consequences on the exams.
    I will mention to those who commented that the faculty don't have the option to show up late, that the faculty GET PAID and IT IS THEIR JOB to show up and lecture. Being a student is not a job it is a means for getting a better job in the future. This means many of your students are probably working to put themselves through school and you better bet that they show up on time for that.






    share|improve this answer





















    • Sorry, but some students see class as an occupational hazard and turn up late, then expect to disrupt class to get information about what they missed to the cost of those who turn up on time - all down to respect...
      – Solar Mike
      yesterday






    • 1




      If that is their expectation, then you need to clamp down on them disrupting the class. Disrupting class is not acceptable. But whether a student comes late or not at all or is asleep as long as they don't snore, why would you care?
      – gnasher729
      yesterday










    • I agree in that disrupting class is not acceptable, however you should really find out if they are late because of another reason. Not all students are as lazy and disrespectful as you think they are. Most students are in school because they value education or else why bother with it especially if it is expensive. Even if they view it as "occupational hazard" then they are still paying to attend lectures, be it late anyways, and you shouldn't concern yourself with it unless other student's directly complain.
      – jamis
      11 hours ago




















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    1
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    Mandatory attendance institutions are quite common in some parts of the world. I used to study in one.



    We used to have a roll call. If you are present while your number is called out, your attendance is marked. If you are not, then it is not. Exceptions were made for some known problems like heavy rain or bus/train strikes, and people were always welcome to sit through a lecture without their attendance being marked if they wanted to. This system is prone to a lot of problems though. For example, politically well connected students were able to bully some professors into marking their attendance (yes, this happens).



    The most effective system I heard implemented (not in my institution) was to take it out of the hands of the professors. One institution had some helps (or 'peons", as they are called locally) that they employed. Say a lecture starts at 1:00 pm. The helps used to run around their sections of classes at around 1:10 pm and collect all the attendance sheets. They had later started to up their tech and had fingerprint readers to mark attendance which were powered off remotely 10 minutes into every lecture.



    There's (hopefully) no way to make a change after that. This system is less prone to manipulation. Few, if any, had the political clout to challenge a higher up to whom these sheets were submitted. More importantly, it keeps the relationship between the professors and their students healthy.



    I will admit that most students never liked the mandatory attendance policy. But there certainly are good reasons for its existence in some countries. Those reasons are outside the scope of this answer.






    share|improve this answer




























      up vote
      1
      down vote













      When you are a TA, you have to follow the local rules and will have little power to change them (although you have every right to discuss them with colleagues). The way to do so, and the choice to do so in a more general situation, is an important matter.



      Many colleagues, and many answer above dismiss the need to bother with attendance and lateness ("as long as it does not disturb the class"), on the ground that students are adults. I very much disagree with this argument. Since this is not a popular opinion, I feel the need to give some context and justification.



      First, recall that there are many many situations where rules are made for people own good, even adults - mandatory belts in cars, for example (as in France, I do not know the law in other countries). When first enforced, this kind of rule tend to be rejected as treating people as children; after a time, they often get adopted and become obvious. Did people get more adult in the meantime? No, but our behavior, and what we consider proper behavior, is shaped by what others do and what rules (explicit or implicit, legal or traditional) are in force.



      Second, recall that this applies to us academics, however grown up we are. Do you think that the attitude of staff when you turn your paperwork for your next conference late past the deadline has no bearing on your behavior next time? If administrative staff simply treats this as if it where normal, don't you think you would probably miss the deadline quite often? On the contrary, if they (respectfully) mention how much more difficult it makes their job, wouldn't you be more careful? Do you think it is necessarily treating faculty as children to have rules and deadlines for paperwork? Or can you see it is (in good cases) about all of us to interact smoothly and work efficiently? We all act according to a large set of rules, and good rules are those that have a good incentive/heaviness ratio. The most permissive rules are not necessarily optimal.



      Similarly, students attitude toward "going into class" will be shaped by what they see other student do, and how teachers react to what they do. Simply ignoring late students, or student that only show up every other class, will send a very clear message: that it is okay to do so. In most cases, this message is actually detrimental to their study.



      Teachers should not ignore that the way they react sends a message, and they should thus choose how to react in a way that sends a message they believe is accurate and supports our goal: to have student learn. Since I believe the correct message is that showing up in class on time is an important part of studying, I try to adopt rules consistent with this message (one can feel differently about importance of showing up in class on time, but beware that a small proportion of student that can dispense from it should not hide a vast majority that cannot afford this).



      The precise rule I adopt has changed over time. Lately, I have settled for the following: whenever a student shows up more than (literally) 1-2 minutes late, I ask her or him to wait outside; I finish what I was saying and let a little something to think about to the class; I go see the late student, and ask why he or she is late; I always let her or him get in, but make sure to mention being late is not a good thing; then I carry on with the course. This has I think a good balance, even in amphitheaters (first lectures I usually get a dozen late student at a time, then they mostly show up on time - or not at all).






      share|improve this answer




























        up vote
        1
        down vote













        I taught at the university level for years and disagree with most of the above. Yes, students are "adults" but the ones traipsing in 5 or 10 mins late rarely are acting like them. They disrupt the class, and more importantly miss important notes or announcements, requiring YOU to consistently do extra work. If they are adults, they can decide whether to come to class or skip it, but if they come, they shouldn't be arriving after the door closes (give a couple minutes' grace period) and they shouldn't be asking YOU to handhold them the entire semester while they figure out to set their alarm clock.



        And since taking attendance is a requirement as noted by the OP's edit, his or her implementing of this will be evaluated and possibly become a part of the decision to rehire. So being lax about this or deciding to secretly not do it seems unwise.



        Anyone who's fine letting kids come in late doesn't understand how distracting to the REAL adults (instructor and kids who got there on time!!!) that policy is. And while you can certainly make an exception for the good student who has a flat tire that one day, being the prof who everyone knows will let you arrive any time will be a Pandora's Box that once opened, will be hard to close.



        Whatever policy you choose, make sure it's clearly in the syllabus and that you stick to it. But think about the students who CARE about your class, getting there on time, eager to learn, who have to put up with you admitting and addressing a stream of stragglers who arrive whenever they feel like it each time.






        share|improve this answer








        New contributor




        user1149499 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
        Check out our Code of Conduct.

























          up vote
          1
          down vote













          Most of the answers are very tolerant. Since this is obviously a matter of preference, I always went for 4 (close the doors and nobody comes in after my lecture started).



          Missing one class is not the end of the world for them. It will, however, teach them something: that time is valuable and that they must make whatever they can to be on time. Even if it means being there 15 minutes early because of an unfortunate train connection.



          Being late of course happens, and the world will usually not be waiting for you. You were late for the plane, it is gone. You were late for a doctor appointment, the next patient jumped in.



          This is simply life and being late is often a decision, and sometime bad luck.



          If being late means that they will get sick, die, or miss a once-in-a-life opportunity then laxism is welcome. Otherwise this is just teaching them that the world is what it is, and being on time is an asset.



          Today, outside of academia, I start my meetings sharp. If someone is late then I never summarize what happened earlier in the meeting (I do not usually have, technically, the possibility to block them).



          One last point to take into account is the commute between courses or meetings: people think that this is done over teleportation.



          I finish the meetings / courses I am in control of a few minutes early but if I stuck with one which finishes sharp and the next one starts sharp as well I make decisions. To leave early or to be late (and possibly miss the meeting), at least until teleportation is a thing. If your course is right behind the one of someone who has no understanding that commute time is necessary then you may start yours 5 minutes later (I did this a few times not to penalize the students because of decisions outside their control)






          share|improve this answer



















          • 4




            That may work in some places but many campuses don't allow sufficient time for all students to make it between lectures (especially disabled students). I've taught labs where a large subset of the students were expected to walk from another site in zero time, a walk that took me 10 minutes.
            – Chris H
            6 hours ago










          • @ChrisH: this is exactly why I mentioned that some people think that teleportation works between meetings/courses and plan the timings around this ridiculous idea (those people are idiots and should be treated as such when there is an opportunity). One should either put pressure so that courses take this into account, or be the reasonable/kind person who will be starting the class a bit later (clearly announcing it, and that after the initial 5 minutes the class is closed). This also means not starting on tile as one cannot penalized the ones who are on time (within the 5 minutes).
            – WoJ
            3 hours ago











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          10 Answers
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          up vote
          116
          down vote













          I use another option:



          0) Allow all students in class and do not monitor attendance.



          They are adults and they come to learn. As long as they do not disrupt the class they are free to come and go as they please. I do not see which purpose the monitoring of attendance serves. It sends the wrong signal and focuses students on signing the register sheet rather than on the objective of the class.



          I do, however, start each class by thanking students who attend and come in time. Latecomers will miss this part.






          share|improve this answer

















          • 19




            Policies are a product of agreement, and as such can be re-negotiated, if they are no longer appropriate or fit for purpose.
            – Dmitry Savostyanov
            2 days ago






          • 8




            Yes, the management agrees that this is the policy and we follow...
            – Solar Mike
            2 days ago






          • 53




            -1 I think this does not answer the question. The question (while poorly written and arguably not a good fit for this site) implies that the OP is at a mandatory-attendance institution, and is too far down the hierarchy to affect that policy. Such policies may come from non-teaching administration or state government and be beyond outside negotiation.
            – Daniel R. Collins
            2 days ago






          • 7




            @DanielR.Collins It is unreasonable to expect the answer to cover the aspects of the situation that was not described in the question. As I said, the OP's comment with extra information appeared after I posted my answer.
            – Dmitry Savostyanov
            yesterday






          • 19




            I think if the OP feels the attendance policy is non negotiably imposed from above, then the lateness policy must come from the same place.
            – emory
            yesterday















          up vote
          116
          down vote













          I use another option:



          0) Allow all students in class and do not monitor attendance.



          They are adults and they come to learn. As long as they do not disrupt the class they are free to come and go as they please. I do not see which purpose the monitoring of attendance serves. It sends the wrong signal and focuses students on signing the register sheet rather than on the objective of the class.



          I do, however, start each class by thanking students who attend and come in time. Latecomers will miss this part.






          share|improve this answer

















          • 19




            Policies are a product of agreement, and as such can be re-negotiated, if they are no longer appropriate or fit for purpose.
            – Dmitry Savostyanov
            2 days ago






          • 8




            Yes, the management agrees that this is the policy and we follow...
            – Solar Mike
            2 days ago






          • 53




            -1 I think this does not answer the question. The question (while poorly written and arguably not a good fit for this site) implies that the OP is at a mandatory-attendance institution, and is too far down the hierarchy to affect that policy. Such policies may come from non-teaching administration or state government and be beyond outside negotiation.
            – Daniel R. Collins
            2 days ago






          • 7




            @DanielR.Collins It is unreasonable to expect the answer to cover the aspects of the situation that was not described in the question. As I said, the OP's comment with extra information appeared after I posted my answer.
            – Dmitry Savostyanov
            yesterday






          • 19




            I think if the OP feels the attendance policy is non negotiably imposed from above, then the lateness policy must come from the same place.
            – emory
            yesterday













          up vote
          116
          down vote










          up vote
          116
          down vote









          I use another option:



          0) Allow all students in class and do not monitor attendance.



          They are adults and they come to learn. As long as they do not disrupt the class they are free to come and go as they please. I do not see which purpose the monitoring of attendance serves. It sends the wrong signal and focuses students on signing the register sheet rather than on the objective of the class.



          I do, however, start each class by thanking students who attend and come in time. Latecomers will miss this part.






          share|improve this answer












          I use another option:



          0) Allow all students in class and do not monitor attendance.



          They are adults and they come to learn. As long as they do not disrupt the class they are free to come and go as they please. I do not see which purpose the monitoring of attendance serves. It sends the wrong signal and focuses students on signing the register sheet rather than on the objective of the class.



          I do, however, start each class by thanking students who attend and come in time. Latecomers will miss this part.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 2 days ago









          Dmitry Savostyanov

          23.6k851105




          23.6k851105








          • 19




            Policies are a product of agreement, and as such can be re-negotiated, if they are no longer appropriate or fit for purpose.
            – Dmitry Savostyanov
            2 days ago






          • 8




            Yes, the management agrees that this is the policy and we follow...
            – Solar Mike
            2 days ago






          • 53




            -1 I think this does not answer the question. The question (while poorly written and arguably not a good fit for this site) implies that the OP is at a mandatory-attendance institution, and is too far down the hierarchy to affect that policy. Such policies may come from non-teaching administration or state government and be beyond outside negotiation.
            – Daniel R. Collins
            2 days ago






          • 7




            @DanielR.Collins It is unreasonable to expect the answer to cover the aspects of the situation that was not described in the question. As I said, the OP's comment with extra information appeared after I posted my answer.
            – Dmitry Savostyanov
            yesterday






          • 19




            I think if the OP feels the attendance policy is non negotiably imposed from above, then the lateness policy must come from the same place.
            – emory
            yesterday














          • 19




            Policies are a product of agreement, and as such can be re-negotiated, if they are no longer appropriate or fit for purpose.
            – Dmitry Savostyanov
            2 days ago






          • 8




            Yes, the management agrees that this is the policy and we follow...
            – Solar Mike
            2 days ago






          • 53




            -1 I think this does not answer the question. The question (while poorly written and arguably not a good fit for this site) implies that the OP is at a mandatory-attendance institution, and is too far down the hierarchy to affect that policy. Such policies may come from non-teaching administration or state government and be beyond outside negotiation.
            – Daniel R. Collins
            2 days ago






          • 7




            @DanielR.Collins It is unreasonable to expect the answer to cover the aspects of the situation that was not described in the question. As I said, the OP's comment with extra information appeared after I posted my answer.
            – Dmitry Savostyanov
            yesterday






          • 19




            I think if the OP feels the attendance policy is non negotiably imposed from above, then the lateness policy must come from the same place.
            – emory
            yesterday








          19




          19




          Policies are a product of agreement, and as such can be re-negotiated, if they are no longer appropriate or fit for purpose.
          – Dmitry Savostyanov
          2 days ago




          Policies are a product of agreement, and as such can be re-negotiated, if they are no longer appropriate or fit for purpose.
          – Dmitry Savostyanov
          2 days ago




          8




          8




          Yes, the management agrees that this is the policy and we follow...
          – Solar Mike
          2 days ago




          Yes, the management agrees that this is the policy and we follow...
          – Solar Mike
          2 days ago




          53




          53




          -1 I think this does not answer the question. The question (while poorly written and arguably not a good fit for this site) implies that the OP is at a mandatory-attendance institution, and is too far down the hierarchy to affect that policy. Such policies may come from non-teaching administration or state government and be beyond outside negotiation.
          – Daniel R. Collins
          2 days ago




          -1 I think this does not answer the question. The question (while poorly written and arguably not a good fit for this site) implies that the OP is at a mandatory-attendance institution, and is too far down the hierarchy to affect that policy. Such policies may come from non-teaching administration or state government and be beyond outside negotiation.
          – Daniel R. Collins
          2 days ago




          7




          7




          @DanielR.Collins It is unreasonable to expect the answer to cover the aspects of the situation that was not described in the question. As I said, the OP's comment with extra information appeared after I posted my answer.
          – Dmitry Savostyanov
          yesterday




          @DanielR.Collins It is unreasonable to expect the answer to cover the aspects of the situation that was not described in the question. As I said, the OP's comment with extra information appeared after I posted my answer.
          – Dmitry Savostyanov
          yesterday




          19




          19




          I think if the OP feels the attendance policy is non negotiably imposed from above, then the lateness policy must come from the same place.
          – emory
          yesterday




          I think if the OP feels the attendance policy is non negotiably imposed from above, then the lateness policy must come from the same place.
          – emory
          yesterday










          up vote
          49
          down vote













          I'll try to provide an answer in light of the fact that many answers here will come from professors who do not realize how common it is for some college institutions to have mandatory attendance-taking policies. The OP's question is this:




          What is the recommended and proper behaviour towards late comers?




          My answer would be: Whatever is least disruptive and takes the least time away from focus on the academic subject matter.



          Attendance-taking is, historically, an act taken by custodians of young children (elementary or secondary school). As you can see from other answers, many professors are actually aghast at the idea of taking time to track attendance for adult college students -- and rightfully so! However, I understand that the OP is at an institution where attendance-taking is mandatory (possibly via a policy by the academic department, college administration, funding agency, or state government).



          Most professors will (I think) agree that attendance-taking is a distraction and painful loss of time from focus on the academic subject matter that we are there to share. So -- granted your institutional parameters -- I think that you should minimize such loss of time as much as possible. Some suggested cases:




          1. If it is in your power to waive attendance-taking, then do so.


          2. If you must take some kind of attendance records, consider whether it is in your power to define what "attendance" means for your course. Perhaps attendance (course participation) is adjudicated by the most recent work submission, or weekly activity in an online discussion board.


          3. If you must take actual attendance in-class, then find the protocol that you spend the least amount of time adjudicating (incl. time on excuses/arguments/challenges, etc.). Perhaps this is easiest via a sign-in sheet, simultaneous with a practice exercise, or at the end of class.







          share|improve this answer























          • I’m having trouble imagining how a policy requiring instructors to actually take attendance could be enforced. Perhaps installing a turnstile at the door of every classroom, which can be opened only by a student ID card?
            – JeffE
            yesterday






          • 1




            @JeffE Assigned seats and a seating chart make it fairly fast, just mark off the empty seats, or it could be done electronically with classes that use "clicker" response systems during lectures (cue students giving their clicker to their friends to be marked present). It's all still more time consuming than not taking attendance at all.
            – Zach Lipton
            21 hours ago








          • 2




            No, I’m not wondering how to force students to attend, but rather how to force instructors to accurately report attendance, as opposed to just reporting everyone present and getting on with their job.
            – JeffE
            11 hours ago








          • 3




            @JeffE I have heard horror stories where the institution audits the attendance records and follows up on irregularities (such as picture perfect attendance) by questioning the faculty member and the TAs(!) of the course. The reason for the frankly ridiculous audit was supposedly to prepare for an audit by the government, which should be no surprise at all. Amazing what magnifying effect a few layers of bureaucracy can have, isn't it.
            – SolveIt
            7 hours ago






          • 3




            Noone seems to have yet brought up that the reason this is required. The reasoning is related to financial aid fraud. It seems that students are taking out loans and then never attending courses (and failing the course, usually). The federal government believes this behavior is detrimental to both the government and the student (going into debt without getting any educational credits in the end). When a school has a lot of cases of this, the school can get sanctioned and can lose some of its aid. It is paternalistic, but the government also has an interest in spending its money well.
            – Dawn
            2 hours ago















          up vote
          49
          down vote













          I'll try to provide an answer in light of the fact that many answers here will come from professors who do not realize how common it is for some college institutions to have mandatory attendance-taking policies. The OP's question is this:




          What is the recommended and proper behaviour towards late comers?




          My answer would be: Whatever is least disruptive and takes the least time away from focus on the academic subject matter.



          Attendance-taking is, historically, an act taken by custodians of young children (elementary or secondary school). As you can see from other answers, many professors are actually aghast at the idea of taking time to track attendance for adult college students -- and rightfully so! However, I understand that the OP is at an institution where attendance-taking is mandatory (possibly via a policy by the academic department, college administration, funding agency, or state government).



          Most professors will (I think) agree that attendance-taking is a distraction and painful loss of time from focus on the academic subject matter that we are there to share. So -- granted your institutional parameters -- I think that you should minimize such loss of time as much as possible. Some suggested cases:




          1. If it is in your power to waive attendance-taking, then do so.


          2. If you must take some kind of attendance records, consider whether it is in your power to define what "attendance" means for your course. Perhaps attendance (course participation) is adjudicated by the most recent work submission, or weekly activity in an online discussion board.


          3. If you must take actual attendance in-class, then find the protocol that you spend the least amount of time adjudicating (incl. time on excuses/arguments/challenges, etc.). Perhaps this is easiest via a sign-in sheet, simultaneous with a practice exercise, or at the end of class.







          share|improve this answer























          • I’m having trouble imagining how a policy requiring instructors to actually take attendance could be enforced. Perhaps installing a turnstile at the door of every classroom, which can be opened only by a student ID card?
            – JeffE
            yesterday






          • 1




            @JeffE Assigned seats and a seating chart make it fairly fast, just mark off the empty seats, or it could be done electronically with classes that use "clicker" response systems during lectures (cue students giving their clicker to their friends to be marked present). It's all still more time consuming than not taking attendance at all.
            – Zach Lipton
            21 hours ago








          • 2




            No, I’m not wondering how to force students to attend, but rather how to force instructors to accurately report attendance, as opposed to just reporting everyone present and getting on with their job.
            – JeffE
            11 hours ago








          • 3




            @JeffE I have heard horror stories where the institution audits the attendance records and follows up on irregularities (such as picture perfect attendance) by questioning the faculty member and the TAs(!) of the course. The reason for the frankly ridiculous audit was supposedly to prepare for an audit by the government, which should be no surprise at all. Amazing what magnifying effect a few layers of bureaucracy can have, isn't it.
            – SolveIt
            7 hours ago






          • 3




            Noone seems to have yet brought up that the reason this is required. The reasoning is related to financial aid fraud. It seems that students are taking out loans and then never attending courses (and failing the course, usually). The federal government believes this behavior is detrimental to both the government and the student (going into debt without getting any educational credits in the end). When a school has a lot of cases of this, the school can get sanctioned and can lose some of its aid. It is paternalistic, but the government also has an interest in spending its money well.
            – Dawn
            2 hours ago













          up vote
          49
          down vote










          up vote
          49
          down vote









          I'll try to provide an answer in light of the fact that many answers here will come from professors who do not realize how common it is for some college institutions to have mandatory attendance-taking policies. The OP's question is this:




          What is the recommended and proper behaviour towards late comers?




          My answer would be: Whatever is least disruptive and takes the least time away from focus on the academic subject matter.



          Attendance-taking is, historically, an act taken by custodians of young children (elementary or secondary school). As you can see from other answers, many professors are actually aghast at the idea of taking time to track attendance for adult college students -- and rightfully so! However, I understand that the OP is at an institution where attendance-taking is mandatory (possibly via a policy by the academic department, college administration, funding agency, or state government).



          Most professors will (I think) agree that attendance-taking is a distraction and painful loss of time from focus on the academic subject matter that we are there to share. So -- granted your institutional parameters -- I think that you should minimize such loss of time as much as possible. Some suggested cases:




          1. If it is in your power to waive attendance-taking, then do so.


          2. If you must take some kind of attendance records, consider whether it is in your power to define what "attendance" means for your course. Perhaps attendance (course participation) is adjudicated by the most recent work submission, or weekly activity in an online discussion board.


          3. If you must take actual attendance in-class, then find the protocol that you spend the least amount of time adjudicating (incl. time on excuses/arguments/challenges, etc.). Perhaps this is easiest via a sign-in sheet, simultaneous with a practice exercise, or at the end of class.







          share|improve this answer














          I'll try to provide an answer in light of the fact that many answers here will come from professors who do not realize how common it is for some college institutions to have mandatory attendance-taking policies. The OP's question is this:




          What is the recommended and proper behaviour towards late comers?




          My answer would be: Whatever is least disruptive and takes the least time away from focus on the academic subject matter.



          Attendance-taking is, historically, an act taken by custodians of young children (elementary or secondary school). As you can see from other answers, many professors are actually aghast at the idea of taking time to track attendance for adult college students -- and rightfully so! However, I understand that the OP is at an institution where attendance-taking is mandatory (possibly via a policy by the academic department, college administration, funding agency, or state government).



          Most professors will (I think) agree that attendance-taking is a distraction and painful loss of time from focus on the academic subject matter that we are there to share. So -- granted your institutional parameters -- I think that you should minimize such loss of time as much as possible. Some suggested cases:




          1. If it is in your power to waive attendance-taking, then do so.


          2. If you must take some kind of attendance records, consider whether it is in your power to define what "attendance" means for your course. Perhaps attendance (course participation) is adjudicated by the most recent work submission, or weekly activity in an online discussion board.


          3. If you must take actual attendance in-class, then find the protocol that you spend the least amount of time adjudicating (incl. time on excuses/arguments/challenges, etc.). Perhaps this is easiest via a sign-in sheet, simultaneous with a practice exercise, or at the end of class.








          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited yesterday

























          answered 2 days ago









          Daniel R. Collins

          17.4k44670




          17.4k44670












          • I’m having trouble imagining how a policy requiring instructors to actually take attendance could be enforced. Perhaps installing a turnstile at the door of every classroom, which can be opened only by a student ID card?
            – JeffE
            yesterday






          • 1




            @JeffE Assigned seats and a seating chart make it fairly fast, just mark off the empty seats, or it could be done electronically with classes that use "clicker" response systems during lectures (cue students giving their clicker to their friends to be marked present). It's all still more time consuming than not taking attendance at all.
            – Zach Lipton
            21 hours ago








          • 2




            No, I’m not wondering how to force students to attend, but rather how to force instructors to accurately report attendance, as opposed to just reporting everyone present and getting on with their job.
            – JeffE
            11 hours ago








          • 3




            @JeffE I have heard horror stories where the institution audits the attendance records and follows up on irregularities (such as picture perfect attendance) by questioning the faculty member and the TAs(!) of the course. The reason for the frankly ridiculous audit was supposedly to prepare for an audit by the government, which should be no surprise at all. Amazing what magnifying effect a few layers of bureaucracy can have, isn't it.
            – SolveIt
            7 hours ago






          • 3




            Noone seems to have yet brought up that the reason this is required. The reasoning is related to financial aid fraud. It seems that students are taking out loans and then never attending courses (and failing the course, usually). The federal government believes this behavior is detrimental to both the government and the student (going into debt without getting any educational credits in the end). When a school has a lot of cases of this, the school can get sanctioned and can lose some of its aid. It is paternalistic, but the government also has an interest in spending its money well.
            – Dawn
            2 hours ago


















          • I’m having trouble imagining how a policy requiring instructors to actually take attendance could be enforced. Perhaps installing a turnstile at the door of every classroom, which can be opened only by a student ID card?
            – JeffE
            yesterday






          • 1




            @JeffE Assigned seats and a seating chart make it fairly fast, just mark off the empty seats, or it could be done electronically with classes that use "clicker" response systems during lectures (cue students giving their clicker to their friends to be marked present). It's all still more time consuming than not taking attendance at all.
            – Zach Lipton
            21 hours ago








          • 2




            No, I’m not wondering how to force students to attend, but rather how to force instructors to accurately report attendance, as opposed to just reporting everyone present and getting on with their job.
            – JeffE
            11 hours ago








          • 3




            @JeffE I have heard horror stories where the institution audits the attendance records and follows up on irregularities (such as picture perfect attendance) by questioning the faculty member and the TAs(!) of the course. The reason for the frankly ridiculous audit was supposedly to prepare for an audit by the government, which should be no surprise at all. Amazing what magnifying effect a few layers of bureaucracy can have, isn't it.
            – SolveIt
            7 hours ago






          • 3




            Noone seems to have yet brought up that the reason this is required. The reasoning is related to financial aid fraud. It seems that students are taking out loans and then never attending courses (and failing the course, usually). The federal government believes this behavior is detrimental to both the government and the student (going into debt without getting any educational credits in the end). When a school has a lot of cases of this, the school can get sanctioned and can lose some of its aid. It is paternalistic, but the government also has an interest in spending its money well.
            – Dawn
            2 hours ago
















          I’m having trouble imagining how a policy requiring instructors to actually take attendance could be enforced. Perhaps installing a turnstile at the door of every classroom, which can be opened only by a student ID card?
          – JeffE
          yesterday




          I’m having trouble imagining how a policy requiring instructors to actually take attendance could be enforced. Perhaps installing a turnstile at the door of every classroom, which can be opened only by a student ID card?
          – JeffE
          yesterday




          1




          1




          @JeffE Assigned seats and a seating chart make it fairly fast, just mark off the empty seats, or it could be done electronically with classes that use "clicker" response systems during lectures (cue students giving their clicker to their friends to be marked present). It's all still more time consuming than not taking attendance at all.
          – Zach Lipton
          21 hours ago






          @JeffE Assigned seats and a seating chart make it fairly fast, just mark off the empty seats, or it could be done electronically with classes that use "clicker" response systems during lectures (cue students giving their clicker to their friends to be marked present). It's all still more time consuming than not taking attendance at all.
          – Zach Lipton
          21 hours ago






          2




          2




          No, I’m not wondering how to force students to attend, but rather how to force instructors to accurately report attendance, as opposed to just reporting everyone present and getting on with their job.
          – JeffE
          11 hours ago






          No, I’m not wondering how to force students to attend, but rather how to force instructors to accurately report attendance, as opposed to just reporting everyone present and getting on with their job.
          – JeffE
          11 hours ago






          3




          3




          @JeffE I have heard horror stories where the institution audits the attendance records and follows up on irregularities (such as picture perfect attendance) by questioning the faculty member and the TAs(!) of the course. The reason for the frankly ridiculous audit was supposedly to prepare for an audit by the government, which should be no surprise at all. Amazing what magnifying effect a few layers of bureaucracy can have, isn't it.
          – SolveIt
          7 hours ago




          @JeffE I have heard horror stories where the institution audits the attendance records and follows up on irregularities (such as picture perfect attendance) by questioning the faculty member and the TAs(!) of the course. The reason for the frankly ridiculous audit was supposedly to prepare for an audit by the government, which should be no surprise at all. Amazing what magnifying effect a few layers of bureaucracy can have, isn't it.
          – SolveIt
          7 hours ago




          3




          3




          Noone seems to have yet brought up that the reason this is required. The reasoning is related to financial aid fraud. It seems that students are taking out loans and then never attending courses (and failing the course, usually). The federal government believes this behavior is detrimental to both the government and the student (going into debt without getting any educational credits in the end). When a school has a lot of cases of this, the school can get sanctioned and can lose some of its aid. It is paternalistic, but the government also has an interest in spending its money well.
          – Dawn
          2 hours ago




          Noone seems to have yet brought up that the reason this is required. The reasoning is related to financial aid fraud. It seems that students are taking out loans and then never attending courses (and failing the course, usually). The federal government believes this behavior is detrimental to both the government and the student (going into debt without getting any educational credits in the end). When a school has a lot of cases of this, the school can get sanctioned and can lose some of its aid. It is paternalistic, but the government also has an interest in spending its money well.
          – Dawn
          2 hours ago










          up vote
          15
          down vote













          In this case, attendance is a requirement mandated from above. You could ask for clarification from the powers that be who set the rule. For example, you could ask ... Is attendance to be recorded at the start, middle, or end of class? In other words, you could push the decision process back up the chain from whence it came.



          This approach is likely best done only when you have lots of free time, you have a thick skin, and you just want to annoy your superiors.



          The inference is that you have the freedom to define your approach to how you record attendance. Dissecting each of your options, I might see them this way ...



          1) You record attendance at the end of class



          2) You record attendance at the end of class AND ask the latecomers for excuses that you then ignore anyway



          3) You record attendance at the end of class AND ask the latecomers for excuses AND try to parse the excuses based on a matrix that relies on other potentially unclear and arbitrary rules AND use an on-the-spot decision from that ruling to erase attendance



          4) You record attendance at the start of class AND shut out latecomers from even entering the class which only serves to annoy the "honest latecomers", stoke your ego, and count attendance twice because the latecomers may also be shut out of the final exam



          I hope that, with this analysis, you see the excess overhead and futility of using options 2-4.



          Let's presume that you do not have the option to IGNORE taking attendance. Perhaps for example you are mandated to make a report that proves that you did. In this case, I suggest, with the freedom that you have to define attendance, you have two approaches.



          Attendance Means You Were Here for the (Majority of the) Lecture



          Record attendance at a certain point in time near start of class and then be done with it. Latecomers should be allowed a certain grace, perhaps even to the middle of class. After that grace, they can show up but they will be recorded as having been absent. Attendance then becomes a consistent message, both in what it means and in when it is recorded. You don't bother yourself with policing attendance on-the-spot, either by parsing excuses or by shutting out latecomers.



          When you would do as above, figure out how you will handle students who ARE late yet will try to say "I was there by the time the attendance was recorded and you missed me." The clicker system that is oft-used in US classrooms can be great for this ... With due diligence, it should not be easily cheated. Other methods have their pros and cons. In the end, whatever you decide to handle such cases, keep it simple and consistent.



          Attendance Means You Were Here by the Time the Lecture Ended



          Record attendance at the end of the lecture and be done with it.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 1




            Overall, I like this approach, but I'm a bit unclear on whether the grace period you mention means that folks arriving then will be counted as in-attendance, or just that the door won't be locked against them. (Also, clicker attendance absolutely can be cheated; this came up recently when my institution tried to use them to count votes in faculty meetings, and a CS professor hacked the "trial" vote.)
            – 1006a
            yesterday








          • 2




            It’s pretty easy. I have seen students come to class with eight clickers.
            – JeffE
            yesterday










          • @JeffE I've added "with due diligence" about clickers. Interesting to hear about the ease with which students can find loopholes. Perhaps this means that clickers should come with thumb-print or facial recognition as the only way to activate them.
            – Jeffrey J Weimer
            20 hours ago










          • Interestingly, "whence" already includes "from" merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whence
            – Azor Ahai
            6 mins ago















          up vote
          15
          down vote













          In this case, attendance is a requirement mandated from above. You could ask for clarification from the powers that be who set the rule. For example, you could ask ... Is attendance to be recorded at the start, middle, or end of class? In other words, you could push the decision process back up the chain from whence it came.



          This approach is likely best done only when you have lots of free time, you have a thick skin, and you just want to annoy your superiors.



          The inference is that you have the freedom to define your approach to how you record attendance. Dissecting each of your options, I might see them this way ...



          1) You record attendance at the end of class



          2) You record attendance at the end of class AND ask the latecomers for excuses that you then ignore anyway



          3) You record attendance at the end of class AND ask the latecomers for excuses AND try to parse the excuses based on a matrix that relies on other potentially unclear and arbitrary rules AND use an on-the-spot decision from that ruling to erase attendance



          4) You record attendance at the start of class AND shut out latecomers from even entering the class which only serves to annoy the "honest latecomers", stoke your ego, and count attendance twice because the latecomers may also be shut out of the final exam



          I hope that, with this analysis, you see the excess overhead and futility of using options 2-4.



          Let's presume that you do not have the option to IGNORE taking attendance. Perhaps for example you are mandated to make a report that proves that you did. In this case, I suggest, with the freedom that you have to define attendance, you have two approaches.



          Attendance Means You Were Here for the (Majority of the) Lecture



          Record attendance at a certain point in time near start of class and then be done with it. Latecomers should be allowed a certain grace, perhaps even to the middle of class. After that grace, they can show up but they will be recorded as having been absent. Attendance then becomes a consistent message, both in what it means and in when it is recorded. You don't bother yourself with policing attendance on-the-spot, either by parsing excuses or by shutting out latecomers.



          When you would do as above, figure out how you will handle students who ARE late yet will try to say "I was there by the time the attendance was recorded and you missed me." The clicker system that is oft-used in US classrooms can be great for this ... With due diligence, it should not be easily cheated. Other methods have their pros and cons. In the end, whatever you decide to handle such cases, keep it simple and consistent.



          Attendance Means You Were Here by the Time the Lecture Ended



          Record attendance at the end of the lecture and be done with it.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 1




            Overall, I like this approach, but I'm a bit unclear on whether the grace period you mention means that folks arriving then will be counted as in-attendance, or just that the door won't be locked against them. (Also, clicker attendance absolutely can be cheated; this came up recently when my institution tried to use them to count votes in faculty meetings, and a CS professor hacked the "trial" vote.)
            – 1006a
            yesterday








          • 2




            It’s pretty easy. I have seen students come to class with eight clickers.
            – JeffE
            yesterday










          • @JeffE I've added "with due diligence" about clickers. Interesting to hear about the ease with which students can find loopholes. Perhaps this means that clickers should come with thumb-print or facial recognition as the only way to activate them.
            – Jeffrey J Weimer
            20 hours ago










          • Interestingly, "whence" already includes "from" merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whence
            – Azor Ahai
            6 mins ago













          up vote
          15
          down vote










          up vote
          15
          down vote









          In this case, attendance is a requirement mandated from above. You could ask for clarification from the powers that be who set the rule. For example, you could ask ... Is attendance to be recorded at the start, middle, or end of class? In other words, you could push the decision process back up the chain from whence it came.



          This approach is likely best done only when you have lots of free time, you have a thick skin, and you just want to annoy your superiors.



          The inference is that you have the freedom to define your approach to how you record attendance. Dissecting each of your options, I might see them this way ...



          1) You record attendance at the end of class



          2) You record attendance at the end of class AND ask the latecomers for excuses that you then ignore anyway



          3) You record attendance at the end of class AND ask the latecomers for excuses AND try to parse the excuses based on a matrix that relies on other potentially unclear and arbitrary rules AND use an on-the-spot decision from that ruling to erase attendance



          4) You record attendance at the start of class AND shut out latecomers from even entering the class which only serves to annoy the "honest latecomers", stoke your ego, and count attendance twice because the latecomers may also be shut out of the final exam



          I hope that, with this analysis, you see the excess overhead and futility of using options 2-4.



          Let's presume that you do not have the option to IGNORE taking attendance. Perhaps for example you are mandated to make a report that proves that you did. In this case, I suggest, with the freedom that you have to define attendance, you have two approaches.



          Attendance Means You Were Here for the (Majority of the) Lecture



          Record attendance at a certain point in time near start of class and then be done with it. Latecomers should be allowed a certain grace, perhaps even to the middle of class. After that grace, they can show up but they will be recorded as having been absent. Attendance then becomes a consistent message, both in what it means and in when it is recorded. You don't bother yourself with policing attendance on-the-spot, either by parsing excuses or by shutting out latecomers.



          When you would do as above, figure out how you will handle students who ARE late yet will try to say "I was there by the time the attendance was recorded and you missed me." The clicker system that is oft-used in US classrooms can be great for this ... With due diligence, it should not be easily cheated. Other methods have their pros and cons. In the end, whatever you decide to handle such cases, keep it simple and consistent.



          Attendance Means You Were Here by the Time the Lecture Ended



          Record attendance at the end of the lecture and be done with it.






          share|improve this answer














          In this case, attendance is a requirement mandated from above. You could ask for clarification from the powers that be who set the rule. For example, you could ask ... Is attendance to be recorded at the start, middle, or end of class? In other words, you could push the decision process back up the chain from whence it came.



          This approach is likely best done only when you have lots of free time, you have a thick skin, and you just want to annoy your superiors.



          The inference is that you have the freedom to define your approach to how you record attendance. Dissecting each of your options, I might see them this way ...



          1) You record attendance at the end of class



          2) You record attendance at the end of class AND ask the latecomers for excuses that you then ignore anyway



          3) You record attendance at the end of class AND ask the latecomers for excuses AND try to parse the excuses based on a matrix that relies on other potentially unclear and arbitrary rules AND use an on-the-spot decision from that ruling to erase attendance



          4) You record attendance at the start of class AND shut out latecomers from even entering the class which only serves to annoy the "honest latecomers", stoke your ego, and count attendance twice because the latecomers may also be shut out of the final exam



          I hope that, with this analysis, you see the excess overhead and futility of using options 2-4.



          Let's presume that you do not have the option to IGNORE taking attendance. Perhaps for example you are mandated to make a report that proves that you did. In this case, I suggest, with the freedom that you have to define attendance, you have two approaches.



          Attendance Means You Were Here for the (Majority of the) Lecture



          Record attendance at a certain point in time near start of class and then be done with it. Latecomers should be allowed a certain grace, perhaps even to the middle of class. After that grace, they can show up but they will be recorded as having been absent. Attendance then becomes a consistent message, both in what it means and in when it is recorded. You don't bother yourself with policing attendance on-the-spot, either by parsing excuses or by shutting out latecomers.



          When you would do as above, figure out how you will handle students who ARE late yet will try to say "I was there by the time the attendance was recorded and you missed me." The clicker system that is oft-used in US classrooms can be great for this ... With due diligence, it should not be easily cheated. Other methods have their pros and cons. In the end, whatever you decide to handle such cases, keep it simple and consistent.



          Attendance Means You Were Here by the Time the Lecture Ended



          Record attendance at the end of the lecture and be done with it.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 20 hours ago

























          answered 2 days ago









          Jeffrey J Weimer

          1,213110




          1,213110








          • 1




            Overall, I like this approach, but I'm a bit unclear on whether the grace period you mention means that folks arriving then will be counted as in-attendance, or just that the door won't be locked against them. (Also, clicker attendance absolutely can be cheated; this came up recently when my institution tried to use them to count votes in faculty meetings, and a CS professor hacked the "trial" vote.)
            – 1006a
            yesterday








          • 2




            It’s pretty easy. I have seen students come to class with eight clickers.
            – JeffE
            yesterday










          • @JeffE I've added "with due diligence" about clickers. Interesting to hear about the ease with which students can find loopholes. Perhaps this means that clickers should come with thumb-print or facial recognition as the only way to activate them.
            – Jeffrey J Weimer
            20 hours ago










          • Interestingly, "whence" already includes "from" merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whence
            – Azor Ahai
            6 mins ago














          • 1




            Overall, I like this approach, but I'm a bit unclear on whether the grace period you mention means that folks arriving then will be counted as in-attendance, or just that the door won't be locked against them. (Also, clicker attendance absolutely can be cheated; this came up recently when my institution tried to use them to count votes in faculty meetings, and a CS professor hacked the "trial" vote.)
            – 1006a
            yesterday








          • 2




            It’s pretty easy. I have seen students come to class with eight clickers.
            – JeffE
            yesterday










          • @JeffE I've added "with due diligence" about clickers. Interesting to hear about the ease with which students can find loopholes. Perhaps this means that clickers should come with thumb-print or facial recognition as the only way to activate them.
            – Jeffrey J Weimer
            20 hours ago










          • Interestingly, "whence" already includes "from" merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whence
            – Azor Ahai
            6 mins ago








          1




          1




          Overall, I like this approach, but I'm a bit unclear on whether the grace period you mention means that folks arriving then will be counted as in-attendance, or just that the door won't be locked against them. (Also, clicker attendance absolutely can be cheated; this came up recently when my institution tried to use them to count votes in faculty meetings, and a CS professor hacked the "trial" vote.)
          – 1006a
          yesterday






          Overall, I like this approach, but I'm a bit unclear on whether the grace period you mention means that folks arriving then will be counted as in-attendance, or just that the door won't be locked against them. (Also, clicker attendance absolutely can be cheated; this came up recently when my institution tried to use them to count votes in faculty meetings, and a CS professor hacked the "trial" vote.)
          – 1006a
          yesterday






          2




          2




          It’s pretty easy. I have seen students come to class with eight clickers.
          – JeffE
          yesterday




          It’s pretty easy. I have seen students come to class with eight clickers.
          – JeffE
          yesterday












          @JeffE I've added "with due diligence" about clickers. Interesting to hear about the ease with which students can find loopholes. Perhaps this means that clickers should come with thumb-print or facial recognition as the only way to activate them.
          – Jeffrey J Weimer
          20 hours ago




          @JeffE I've added "with due diligence" about clickers. Interesting to hear about the ease with which students can find loopholes. Perhaps this means that clickers should come with thumb-print or facial recognition as the only way to activate them.
          – Jeffrey J Weimer
          20 hours ago












          Interestingly, "whence" already includes "from" merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whence
          – Azor Ahai
          6 mins ago




          Interestingly, "whence" already includes "from" merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whence
          – Azor Ahai
          6 mins ago










          up vote
          7
          down vote













          At university level students are adults. It is their choice, their life, their responsibility.



          If they decide to come late and miss things this is their choice and their personal consequences. It is not the responsibility of a teacher at university level (Bachelors, Masters of Doctoral) to discipline them as schoolchildren or parents.



          The only proviso is that they must not interfere with the learning opportunities of other students in the class by being disruptive. If they arrive late, they should do so discretely and give appropriate apologies if convenient.



          I know many students who have family commitments (such as children's doctors appointments) or travel long distances to class and suffer the vagaries of the public transport system. It would be quite unfair and prejudicial to single them out with negative comments.



          You should reflect on your attitude to student learning and teaching, and not those of your class.






          share|improve this answer

















          • 4




            The faculty are adults, but will they arrive late? And will they do that often? Faculty tend to be late rarely.... Faculty also have family and commitments...
            – Solar Mike
            2 days ago








          • 2




            It looks like this is a course with mandatory attendance, so that decision has already been taken above OP's level.
            – Federico Poloni
            2 days ago






          • 1




            -1 This does not answer the question, which implies that the OP is at a mandatory attendance-taking institution (possibly by administrative or legal requirement).
            – Daniel R. Collins
            2 days ago






          • 2




            @DanielR.Collins that was added in a comment after my answer, however my answer still stands. Someone who is late has still attended. Its all about respect from both sides of the class.
            – Brian Tompsett - 汤莱恩
            2 days ago






          • 5




            @SolarMike I really hate the narrative that attendance is a sign of “respect”. It is not. Mandatory attendance is asking for compliance, which is not the same thing.
            – JeffE
            23 hours ago















          up vote
          7
          down vote













          At university level students are adults. It is their choice, their life, their responsibility.



          If they decide to come late and miss things this is their choice and their personal consequences. It is not the responsibility of a teacher at university level (Bachelors, Masters of Doctoral) to discipline them as schoolchildren or parents.



          The only proviso is that they must not interfere with the learning opportunities of other students in the class by being disruptive. If they arrive late, they should do so discretely and give appropriate apologies if convenient.



          I know many students who have family commitments (such as children's doctors appointments) or travel long distances to class and suffer the vagaries of the public transport system. It would be quite unfair and prejudicial to single them out with negative comments.



          You should reflect on your attitude to student learning and teaching, and not those of your class.






          share|improve this answer

















          • 4




            The faculty are adults, but will they arrive late? And will they do that often? Faculty tend to be late rarely.... Faculty also have family and commitments...
            – Solar Mike
            2 days ago








          • 2




            It looks like this is a course with mandatory attendance, so that decision has already been taken above OP's level.
            – Federico Poloni
            2 days ago






          • 1




            -1 This does not answer the question, which implies that the OP is at a mandatory attendance-taking institution (possibly by administrative or legal requirement).
            – Daniel R. Collins
            2 days ago






          • 2




            @DanielR.Collins that was added in a comment after my answer, however my answer still stands. Someone who is late has still attended. Its all about respect from both sides of the class.
            – Brian Tompsett - 汤莱恩
            2 days ago






          • 5




            @SolarMike I really hate the narrative that attendance is a sign of “respect”. It is not. Mandatory attendance is asking for compliance, which is not the same thing.
            – JeffE
            23 hours ago













          up vote
          7
          down vote










          up vote
          7
          down vote









          At university level students are adults. It is their choice, their life, their responsibility.



          If they decide to come late and miss things this is their choice and their personal consequences. It is not the responsibility of a teacher at university level (Bachelors, Masters of Doctoral) to discipline them as schoolchildren or parents.



          The only proviso is that they must not interfere with the learning opportunities of other students in the class by being disruptive. If they arrive late, they should do so discretely and give appropriate apologies if convenient.



          I know many students who have family commitments (such as children's doctors appointments) or travel long distances to class and suffer the vagaries of the public transport system. It would be quite unfair and prejudicial to single them out with negative comments.



          You should reflect on your attitude to student learning and teaching, and not those of your class.






          share|improve this answer












          At university level students are adults. It is their choice, their life, their responsibility.



          If they decide to come late and miss things this is their choice and their personal consequences. It is not the responsibility of a teacher at university level (Bachelors, Masters of Doctoral) to discipline them as schoolchildren or parents.



          The only proviso is that they must not interfere with the learning opportunities of other students in the class by being disruptive. If they arrive late, they should do so discretely and give appropriate apologies if convenient.



          I know many students who have family commitments (such as children's doctors appointments) or travel long distances to class and suffer the vagaries of the public transport system. It would be quite unfair and prejudicial to single them out with negative comments.



          You should reflect on your attitude to student learning and teaching, and not those of your class.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 2 days ago









          Brian Tompsett - 汤莱恩

          9,22933045




          9,22933045








          • 4




            The faculty are adults, but will they arrive late? And will they do that often? Faculty tend to be late rarely.... Faculty also have family and commitments...
            – Solar Mike
            2 days ago








          • 2




            It looks like this is a course with mandatory attendance, so that decision has already been taken above OP's level.
            – Federico Poloni
            2 days ago






          • 1




            -1 This does not answer the question, which implies that the OP is at a mandatory attendance-taking institution (possibly by administrative or legal requirement).
            – Daniel R. Collins
            2 days ago






          • 2




            @DanielR.Collins that was added in a comment after my answer, however my answer still stands. Someone who is late has still attended. Its all about respect from both sides of the class.
            – Brian Tompsett - 汤莱恩
            2 days ago






          • 5




            @SolarMike I really hate the narrative that attendance is a sign of “respect”. It is not. Mandatory attendance is asking for compliance, which is not the same thing.
            – JeffE
            23 hours ago














          • 4




            The faculty are adults, but will they arrive late? And will they do that often? Faculty tend to be late rarely.... Faculty also have family and commitments...
            – Solar Mike
            2 days ago








          • 2




            It looks like this is a course with mandatory attendance, so that decision has already been taken above OP's level.
            – Federico Poloni
            2 days ago






          • 1




            -1 This does not answer the question, which implies that the OP is at a mandatory attendance-taking institution (possibly by administrative or legal requirement).
            – Daniel R. Collins
            2 days ago






          • 2




            @DanielR.Collins that was added in a comment after my answer, however my answer still stands. Someone who is late has still attended. Its all about respect from both sides of the class.
            – Brian Tompsett - 汤莱恩
            2 days ago






          • 5




            @SolarMike I really hate the narrative that attendance is a sign of “respect”. It is not. Mandatory attendance is asking for compliance, which is not the same thing.
            – JeffE
            23 hours ago








          4




          4




          The faculty are adults, but will they arrive late? And will they do that often? Faculty tend to be late rarely.... Faculty also have family and commitments...
          – Solar Mike
          2 days ago






          The faculty are adults, but will they arrive late? And will they do that often? Faculty tend to be late rarely.... Faculty also have family and commitments...
          – Solar Mike
          2 days ago






          2




          2




          It looks like this is a course with mandatory attendance, so that decision has already been taken above OP's level.
          – Federico Poloni
          2 days ago




          It looks like this is a course with mandatory attendance, so that decision has already been taken above OP's level.
          – Federico Poloni
          2 days ago




          1




          1




          -1 This does not answer the question, which implies that the OP is at a mandatory attendance-taking institution (possibly by administrative or legal requirement).
          – Daniel R. Collins
          2 days ago




          -1 This does not answer the question, which implies that the OP is at a mandatory attendance-taking institution (possibly by administrative or legal requirement).
          – Daniel R. Collins
          2 days ago




          2




          2




          @DanielR.Collins that was added in a comment after my answer, however my answer still stands. Someone who is late has still attended. Its all about respect from both sides of the class.
          – Brian Tompsett - 汤莱恩
          2 days ago




          @DanielR.Collins that was added in a comment after my answer, however my answer still stands. Someone who is late has still attended. Its all about respect from both sides of the class.
          – Brian Tompsett - 汤莱恩
          2 days ago




          5




          5




          @SolarMike I really hate the narrative that attendance is a sign of “respect”. It is not. Mandatory attendance is asking for compliance, which is not the same thing.
          – JeffE
          23 hours ago




          @SolarMike I really hate the narrative that attendance is a sign of “respect”. It is not. Mandatory attendance is asking for compliance, which is not the same thing.
          – JeffE
          23 hours ago










          up vote
          3
          down vote













          While my preferred method is to just leave attendance up to the student entirely, recognizing that "things happen" and "people can learn differently", for the situation in which you must take attendance, you want a method that is painless and flexible.



          One way is to require that students give you an index card with their name and date for each class. You can do this for the latecomers only, or actually for everyone. When they come in, they hand you a card. This assumes, of course, a suitable scale. I wouldn't require a card for everyone for 100 students, but for 30 it is fine.



          If you want/need to make judgements about excuses, then latecomers can write their reason for lateness on the card.



          In this way you don't need to interrupt the class, just collect the cards for later processing. You can also make notations on the cards as the class proceeds if you want to record in-process events of any kind.



          My students typically would have cards as a matter of course for note-taking and other in-class activities, but you can provide the cards yourself.



          For an especially small class, say a dozen or so, I would just carry one card for each student while I was teaching. I could easily sort the cards into those present and those not and annotate absences on the card after the class ends.



          Of course, you may need to worry about people turning in cards for others, but a count will tell you if that has happened. And, of course, you must deal with "early leavers" with a different method, but if you know the name-face correspondences it isn't too hard to handle.






          share|improve this answer

























            up vote
            3
            down vote













            While my preferred method is to just leave attendance up to the student entirely, recognizing that "things happen" and "people can learn differently", for the situation in which you must take attendance, you want a method that is painless and flexible.



            One way is to require that students give you an index card with their name and date for each class. You can do this for the latecomers only, or actually for everyone. When they come in, they hand you a card. This assumes, of course, a suitable scale. I wouldn't require a card for everyone for 100 students, but for 30 it is fine.



            If you want/need to make judgements about excuses, then latecomers can write their reason for lateness on the card.



            In this way you don't need to interrupt the class, just collect the cards for later processing. You can also make notations on the cards as the class proceeds if you want to record in-process events of any kind.



            My students typically would have cards as a matter of course for note-taking and other in-class activities, but you can provide the cards yourself.



            For an especially small class, say a dozen or so, I would just carry one card for each student while I was teaching. I could easily sort the cards into those present and those not and annotate absences on the card after the class ends.



            Of course, you may need to worry about people turning in cards for others, but a count will tell you if that has happened. And, of course, you must deal with "early leavers" with a different method, but if you know the name-face correspondences it isn't too hard to handle.






            share|improve this answer























              up vote
              3
              down vote










              up vote
              3
              down vote









              While my preferred method is to just leave attendance up to the student entirely, recognizing that "things happen" and "people can learn differently", for the situation in which you must take attendance, you want a method that is painless and flexible.



              One way is to require that students give you an index card with their name and date for each class. You can do this for the latecomers only, or actually for everyone. When they come in, they hand you a card. This assumes, of course, a suitable scale. I wouldn't require a card for everyone for 100 students, but for 30 it is fine.



              If you want/need to make judgements about excuses, then latecomers can write their reason for lateness on the card.



              In this way you don't need to interrupt the class, just collect the cards for later processing. You can also make notations on the cards as the class proceeds if you want to record in-process events of any kind.



              My students typically would have cards as a matter of course for note-taking and other in-class activities, but you can provide the cards yourself.



              For an especially small class, say a dozen or so, I would just carry one card for each student while I was teaching. I could easily sort the cards into those present and those not and annotate absences on the card after the class ends.



              Of course, you may need to worry about people turning in cards for others, but a count will tell you if that has happened. And, of course, you must deal with "early leavers" with a different method, but if you know the name-face correspondences it isn't too hard to handle.






              share|improve this answer












              While my preferred method is to just leave attendance up to the student entirely, recognizing that "things happen" and "people can learn differently", for the situation in which you must take attendance, you want a method that is painless and flexible.



              One way is to require that students give you an index card with their name and date for each class. You can do this for the latecomers only, or actually for everyone. When they come in, they hand you a card. This assumes, of course, a suitable scale. I wouldn't require a card for everyone for 100 students, but for 30 it is fine.



              If you want/need to make judgements about excuses, then latecomers can write their reason for lateness on the card.



              In this way you don't need to interrupt the class, just collect the cards for later processing. You can also make notations on the cards as the class proceeds if you want to record in-process events of any kind.



              My students typically would have cards as a matter of course for note-taking and other in-class activities, but you can provide the cards yourself.



              For an especially small class, say a dozen or so, I would just carry one card for each student while I was teaching. I could easily sort the cards into those present and those not and annotate absences on the card after the class ends.



              Of course, you may need to worry about people turning in cards for others, but a count will tell you if that has happened. And, of course, you must deal with "early leavers" with a different method, but if you know the name-face correspondences it isn't too hard to handle.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 2 days ago









              Buffy

              29.6k692156




              29.6k692156






















                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote













                  Students are adults. It is their life and their choice. In some countries they pay thousands of dollars to be there which means they do care about being there. Maybe they are late because of a doctors appointment, they have to take care of their own children, they have to take care of their parents, they can't afford to live in the same city as the university and have to commute and got stuck in traffic. It is none of your business what their reason might be. Your job is to just teach and not to be their parents and not to teach them about responsibility. If they miss too much of class they will face the consequences on the exams.
                  I will mention to those who commented that the faculty don't have the option to show up late, that the faculty GET PAID and IT IS THEIR JOB to show up and lecture. Being a student is not a job it is a means for getting a better job in the future. This means many of your students are probably working to put themselves through school and you better bet that they show up on time for that.






                  share|improve this answer





















                  • Sorry, but some students see class as an occupational hazard and turn up late, then expect to disrupt class to get information about what they missed to the cost of those who turn up on time - all down to respect...
                    – Solar Mike
                    yesterday






                  • 1




                    If that is their expectation, then you need to clamp down on them disrupting the class. Disrupting class is not acceptable. But whether a student comes late or not at all or is asleep as long as they don't snore, why would you care?
                    – gnasher729
                    yesterday










                  • I agree in that disrupting class is not acceptable, however you should really find out if they are late because of another reason. Not all students are as lazy and disrespectful as you think they are. Most students are in school because they value education or else why bother with it especially if it is expensive. Even if they view it as "occupational hazard" then they are still paying to attend lectures, be it late anyways, and you shouldn't concern yourself with it unless other student's directly complain.
                    – jamis
                    11 hours ago

















                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote













                  Students are adults. It is their life and their choice. In some countries they pay thousands of dollars to be there which means they do care about being there. Maybe they are late because of a doctors appointment, they have to take care of their own children, they have to take care of their parents, they can't afford to live in the same city as the university and have to commute and got stuck in traffic. It is none of your business what their reason might be. Your job is to just teach and not to be their parents and not to teach them about responsibility. If they miss too much of class they will face the consequences on the exams.
                  I will mention to those who commented that the faculty don't have the option to show up late, that the faculty GET PAID and IT IS THEIR JOB to show up and lecture. Being a student is not a job it is a means for getting a better job in the future. This means many of your students are probably working to put themselves through school and you better bet that they show up on time for that.






                  share|improve this answer





















                  • Sorry, but some students see class as an occupational hazard and turn up late, then expect to disrupt class to get information about what they missed to the cost of those who turn up on time - all down to respect...
                    – Solar Mike
                    yesterday






                  • 1




                    If that is their expectation, then you need to clamp down on them disrupting the class. Disrupting class is not acceptable. But whether a student comes late or not at all or is asleep as long as they don't snore, why would you care?
                    – gnasher729
                    yesterday










                  • I agree in that disrupting class is not acceptable, however you should really find out if they are late because of another reason. Not all students are as lazy and disrespectful as you think they are. Most students are in school because they value education or else why bother with it especially if it is expensive. Even if they view it as "occupational hazard" then they are still paying to attend lectures, be it late anyways, and you shouldn't concern yourself with it unless other student's directly complain.
                    – jamis
                    11 hours ago















                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote









                  Students are adults. It is their life and their choice. In some countries they pay thousands of dollars to be there which means they do care about being there. Maybe they are late because of a doctors appointment, they have to take care of their own children, they have to take care of their parents, they can't afford to live in the same city as the university and have to commute and got stuck in traffic. It is none of your business what their reason might be. Your job is to just teach and not to be their parents and not to teach them about responsibility. If they miss too much of class they will face the consequences on the exams.
                  I will mention to those who commented that the faculty don't have the option to show up late, that the faculty GET PAID and IT IS THEIR JOB to show up and lecture. Being a student is not a job it is a means for getting a better job in the future. This means many of your students are probably working to put themselves through school and you better bet that they show up on time for that.






                  share|improve this answer












                  Students are adults. It is their life and their choice. In some countries they pay thousands of dollars to be there which means they do care about being there. Maybe they are late because of a doctors appointment, they have to take care of their own children, they have to take care of their parents, they can't afford to live in the same city as the university and have to commute and got stuck in traffic. It is none of your business what their reason might be. Your job is to just teach and not to be their parents and not to teach them about responsibility. If they miss too much of class they will face the consequences on the exams.
                  I will mention to those who commented that the faculty don't have the option to show up late, that the faculty GET PAID and IT IS THEIR JOB to show up and lecture. Being a student is not a job it is a means for getting a better job in the future. This means many of your students are probably working to put themselves through school and you better bet that they show up on time for that.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered yesterday









                  jamis

                  394




                  394












                  • Sorry, but some students see class as an occupational hazard and turn up late, then expect to disrupt class to get information about what they missed to the cost of those who turn up on time - all down to respect...
                    – Solar Mike
                    yesterday






                  • 1




                    If that is their expectation, then you need to clamp down on them disrupting the class. Disrupting class is not acceptable. But whether a student comes late or not at all or is asleep as long as they don't snore, why would you care?
                    – gnasher729
                    yesterday










                  • I agree in that disrupting class is not acceptable, however you should really find out if they are late because of another reason. Not all students are as lazy and disrespectful as you think they are. Most students are in school because they value education or else why bother with it especially if it is expensive. Even if they view it as "occupational hazard" then they are still paying to attend lectures, be it late anyways, and you shouldn't concern yourself with it unless other student's directly complain.
                    – jamis
                    11 hours ago




















                  • Sorry, but some students see class as an occupational hazard and turn up late, then expect to disrupt class to get information about what they missed to the cost of those who turn up on time - all down to respect...
                    – Solar Mike
                    yesterday






                  • 1




                    If that is their expectation, then you need to clamp down on them disrupting the class. Disrupting class is not acceptable. But whether a student comes late or not at all or is asleep as long as they don't snore, why would you care?
                    – gnasher729
                    yesterday










                  • I agree in that disrupting class is not acceptable, however you should really find out if they are late because of another reason. Not all students are as lazy and disrespectful as you think they are. Most students are in school because they value education or else why bother with it especially if it is expensive. Even if they view it as "occupational hazard" then they are still paying to attend lectures, be it late anyways, and you shouldn't concern yourself with it unless other student's directly complain.
                    – jamis
                    11 hours ago


















                  Sorry, but some students see class as an occupational hazard and turn up late, then expect to disrupt class to get information about what they missed to the cost of those who turn up on time - all down to respect...
                  – Solar Mike
                  yesterday




                  Sorry, but some students see class as an occupational hazard and turn up late, then expect to disrupt class to get information about what they missed to the cost of those who turn up on time - all down to respect...
                  – Solar Mike
                  yesterday




                  1




                  1




                  If that is their expectation, then you need to clamp down on them disrupting the class. Disrupting class is not acceptable. But whether a student comes late or not at all or is asleep as long as they don't snore, why would you care?
                  – gnasher729
                  yesterday




                  If that is their expectation, then you need to clamp down on them disrupting the class. Disrupting class is not acceptable. But whether a student comes late or not at all or is asleep as long as they don't snore, why would you care?
                  – gnasher729
                  yesterday












                  I agree in that disrupting class is not acceptable, however you should really find out if they are late because of another reason. Not all students are as lazy and disrespectful as you think they are. Most students are in school because they value education or else why bother with it especially if it is expensive. Even if they view it as "occupational hazard" then they are still paying to attend lectures, be it late anyways, and you shouldn't concern yourself with it unless other student's directly complain.
                  – jamis
                  11 hours ago






                  I agree in that disrupting class is not acceptable, however you should really find out if they are late because of another reason. Not all students are as lazy and disrespectful as you think they are. Most students are in school because they value education or else why bother with it especially if it is expensive. Even if they view it as "occupational hazard" then they are still paying to attend lectures, be it late anyways, and you shouldn't concern yourself with it unless other student's directly complain.
                  – jamis
                  11 hours ago












                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote













                  Mandatory attendance institutions are quite common in some parts of the world. I used to study in one.



                  We used to have a roll call. If you are present while your number is called out, your attendance is marked. If you are not, then it is not. Exceptions were made for some known problems like heavy rain or bus/train strikes, and people were always welcome to sit through a lecture without their attendance being marked if they wanted to. This system is prone to a lot of problems though. For example, politically well connected students were able to bully some professors into marking their attendance (yes, this happens).



                  The most effective system I heard implemented (not in my institution) was to take it out of the hands of the professors. One institution had some helps (or 'peons", as they are called locally) that they employed. Say a lecture starts at 1:00 pm. The helps used to run around their sections of classes at around 1:10 pm and collect all the attendance sheets. They had later started to up their tech and had fingerprint readers to mark attendance which were powered off remotely 10 minutes into every lecture.



                  There's (hopefully) no way to make a change after that. This system is less prone to manipulation. Few, if any, had the political clout to challenge a higher up to whom these sheets were submitted. More importantly, it keeps the relationship between the professors and their students healthy.



                  I will admit that most students never liked the mandatory attendance policy. But there certainly are good reasons for its existence in some countries. Those reasons are outside the scope of this answer.






                  share|improve this answer

























                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote













                    Mandatory attendance institutions are quite common in some parts of the world. I used to study in one.



                    We used to have a roll call. If you are present while your number is called out, your attendance is marked. If you are not, then it is not. Exceptions were made for some known problems like heavy rain or bus/train strikes, and people were always welcome to sit through a lecture without their attendance being marked if they wanted to. This system is prone to a lot of problems though. For example, politically well connected students were able to bully some professors into marking their attendance (yes, this happens).



                    The most effective system I heard implemented (not in my institution) was to take it out of the hands of the professors. One institution had some helps (or 'peons", as they are called locally) that they employed. Say a lecture starts at 1:00 pm. The helps used to run around their sections of classes at around 1:10 pm and collect all the attendance sheets. They had later started to up their tech and had fingerprint readers to mark attendance which were powered off remotely 10 minutes into every lecture.



                    There's (hopefully) no way to make a change after that. This system is less prone to manipulation. Few, if any, had the political clout to challenge a higher up to whom these sheets were submitted. More importantly, it keeps the relationship between the professors and their students healthy.



                    I will admit that most students never liked the mandatory attendance policy. But there certainly are good reasons for its existence in some countries. Those reasons are outside the scope of this answer.






                    share|improve this answer























                      up vote
                      1
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      1
                      down vote









                      Mandatory attendance institutions are quite common in some parts of the world. I used to study in one.



                      We used to have a roll call. If you are present while your number is called out, your attendance is marked. If you are not, then it is not. Exceptions were made for some known problems like heavy rain or bus/train strikes, and people were always welcome to sit through a lecture without their attendance being marked if they wanted to. This system is prone to a lot of problems though. For example, politically well connected students were able to bully some professors into marking their attendance (yes, this happens).



                      The most effective system I heard implemented (not in my institution) was to take it out of the hands of the professors. One institution had some helps (or 'peons", as they are called locally) that they employed. Say a lecture starts at 1:00 pm. The helps used to run around their sections of classes at around 1:10 pm and collect all the attendance sheets. They had later started to up their tech and had fingerprint readers to mark attendance which were powered off remotely 10 minutes into every lecture.



                      There's (hopefully) no way to make a change after that. This system is less prone to manipulation. Few, if any, had the political clout to challenge a higher up to whom these sheets were submitted. More importantly, it keeps the relationship between the professors and their students healthy.



                      I will admit that most students never liked the mandatory attendance policy. But there certainly are good reasons for its existence in some countries. Those reasons are outside the scope of this answer.






                      share|improve this answer












                      Mandatory attendance institutions are quite common in some parts of the world. I used to study in one.



                      We used to have a roll call. If you are present while your number is called out, your attendance is marked. If you are not, then it is not. Exceptions were made for some known problems like heavy rain or bus/train strikes, and people were always welcome to sit through a lecture without their attendance being marked if they wanted to. This system is prone to a lot of problems though. For example, politically well connected students were able to bully some professors into marking their attendance (yes, this happens).



                      The most effective system I heard implemented (not in my institution) was to take it out of the hands of the professors. One institution had some helps (or 'peons", as they are called locally) that they employed. Say a lecture starts at 1:00 pm. The helps used to run around their sections of classes at around 1:10 pm and collect all the attendance sheets. They had later started to up their tech and had fingerprint readers to mark attendance which were powered off remotely 10 minutes into every lecture.



                      There's (hopefully) no way to make a change after that. This system is less prone to manipulation. Few, if any, had the political clout to challenge a higher up to whom these sheets were submitted. More importantly, it keeps the relationship between the professors and their students healthy.



                      I will admit that most students never liked the mandatory attendance policy. But there certainly are good reasons for its existence in some countries. Those reasons are outside the scope of this answer.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered yesterday









                      TheJack

                      1111




                      1111






















                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote













                          When you are a TA, you have to follow the local rules and will have little power to change them (although you have every right to discuss them with colleagues). The way to do so, and the choice to do so in a more general situation, is an important matter.



                          Many colleagues, and many answer above dismiss the need to bother with attendance and lateness ("as long as it does not disturb the class"), on the ground that students are adults. I very much disagree with this argument. Since this is not a popular opinion, I feel the need to give some context and justification.



                          First, recall that there are many many situations where rules are made for people own good, even adults - mandatory belts in cars, for example (as in France, I do not know the law in other countries). When first enforced, this kind of rule tend to be rejected as treating people as children; after a time, they often get adopted and become obvious. Did people get more adult in the meantime? No, but our behavior, and what we consider proper behavior, is shaped by what others do and what rules (explicit or implicit, legal or traditional) are in force.



                          Second, recall that this applies to us academics, however grown up we are. Do you think that the attitude of staff when you turn your paperwork for your next conference late past the deadline has no bearing on your behavior next time? If administrative staff simply treats this as if it where normal, don't you think you would probably miss the deadline quite often? On the contrary, if they (respectfully) mention how much more difficult it makes their job, wouldn't you be more careful? Do you think it is necessarily treating faculty as children to have rules and deadlines for paperwork? Or can you see it is (in good cases) about all of us to interact smoothly and work efficiently? We all act according to a large set of rules, and good rules are those that have a good incentive/heaviness ratio. The most permissive rules are not necessarily optimal.



                          Similarly, students attitude toward "going into class" will be shaped by what they see other student do, and how teachers react to what they do. Simply ignoring late students, or student that only show up every other class, will send a very clear message: that it is okay to do so. In most cases, this message is actually detrimental to their study.



                          Teachers should not ignore that the way they react sends a message, and they should thus choose how to react in a way that sends a message they believe is accurate and supports our goal: to have student learn. Since I believe the correct message is that showing up in class on time is an important part of studying, I try to adopt rules consistent with this message (one can feel differently about importance of showing up in class on time, but beware that a small proportion of student that can dispense from it should not hide a vast majority that cannot afford this).



                          The precise rule I adopt has changed over time. Lately, I have settled for the following: whenever a student shows up more than (literally) 1-2 minutes late, I ask her or him to wait outside; I finish what I was saying and let a little something to think about to the class; I go see the late student, and ask why he or she is late; I always let her or him get in, but make sure to mention being late is not a good thing; then I carry on with the course. This has I think a good balance, even in amphitheaters (first lectures I usually get a dozen late student at a time, then they mostly show up on time - or not at all).






                          share|improve this answer

























                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote













                            When you are a TA, you have to follow the local rules and will have little power to change them (although you have every right to discuss them with colleagues). The way to do so, and the choice to do so in a more general situation, is an important matter.



                            Many colleagues, and many answer above dismiss the need to bother with attendance and lateness ("as long as it does not disturb the class"), on the ground that students are adults. I very much disagree with this argument. Since this is not a popular opinion, I feel the need to give some context and justification.



                            First, recall that there are many many situations where rules are made for people own good, even adults - mandatory belts in cars, for example (as in France, I do not know the law in other countries). When first enforced, this kind of rule tend to be rejected as treating people as children; after a time, they often get adopted and become obvious. Did people get more adult in the meantime? No, but our behavior, and what we consider proper behavior, is shaped by what others do and what rules (explicit or implicit, legal or traditional) are in force.



                            Second, recall that this applies to us academics, however grown up we are. Do you think that the attitude of staff when you turn your paperwork for your next conference late past the deadline has no bearing on your behavior next time? If administrative staff simply treats this as if it where normal, don't you think you would probably miss the deadline quite often? On the contrary, if they (respectfully) mention how much more difficult it makes their job, wouldn't you be more careful? Do you think it is necessarily treating faculty as children to have rules and deadlines for paperwork? Or can you see it is (in good cases) about all of us to interact smoothly and work efficiently? We all act according to a large set of rules, and good rules are those that have a good incentive/heaviness ratio. The most permissive rules are not necessarily optimal.



                            Similarly, students attitude toward "going into class" will be shaped by what they see other student do, and how teachers react to what they do. Simply ignoring late students, or student that only show up every other class, will send a very clear message: that it is okay to do so. In most cases, this message is actually detrimental to their study.



                            Teachers should not ignore that the way they react sends a message, and they should thus choose how to react in a way that sends a message they believe is accurate and supports our goal: to have student learn. Since I believe the correct message is that showing up in class on time is an important part of studying, I try to adopt rules consistent with this message (one can feel differently about importance of showing up in class on time, but beware that a small proportion of student that can dispense from it should not hide a vast majority that cannot afford this).



                            The precise rule I adopt has changed over time. Lately, I have settled for the following: whenever a student shows up more than (literally) 1-2 minutes late, I ask her or him to wait outside; I finish what I was saying and let a little something to think about to the class; I go see the late student, and ask why he or she is late; I always let her or him get in, but make sure to mention being late is not a good thing; then I carry on with the course. This has I think a good balance, even in amphitheaters (first lectures I usually get a dozen late student at a time, then they mostly show up on time - or not at all).






                            share|improve this answer























                              up vote
                              1
                              down vote










                              up vote
                              1
                              down vote









                              When you are a TA, you have to follow the local rules and will have little power to change them (although you have every right to discuss them with colleagues). The way to do so, and the choice to do so in a more general situation, is an important matter.



                              Many colleagues, and many answer above dismiss the need to bother with attendance and lateness ("as long as it does not disturb the class"), on the ground that students are adults. I very much disagree with this argument. Since this is not a popular opinion, I feel the need to give some context and justification.



                              First, recall that there are many many situations where rules are made for people own good, even adults - mandatory belts in cars, for example (as in France, I do not know the law in other countries). When first enforced, this kind of rule tend to be rejected as treating people as children; after a time, they often get adopted and become obvious. Did people get more adult in the meantime? No, but our behavior, and what we consider proper behavior, is shaped by what others do and what rules (explicit or implicit, legal or traditional) are in force.



                              Second, recall that this applies to us academics, however grown up we are. Do you think that the attitude of staff when you turn your paperwork for your next conference late past the deadline has no bearing on your behavior next time? If administrative staff simply treats this as if it where normal, don't you think you would probably miss the deadline quite often? On the contrary, if they (respectfully) mention how much more difficult it makes their job, wouldn't you be more careful? Do you think it is necessarily treating faculty as children to have rules and deadlines for paperwork? Or can you see it is (in good cases) about all of us to interact smoothly and work efficiently? We all act according to a large set of rules, and good rules are those that have a good incentive/heaviness ratio. The most permissive rules are not necessarily optimal.



                              Similarly, students attitude toward "going into class" will be shaped by what they see other student do, and how teachers react to what they do. Simply ignoring late students, or student that only show up every other class, will send a very clear message: that it is okay to do so. In most cases, this message is actually detrimental to their study.



                              Teachers should not ignore that the way they react sends a message, and they should thus choose how to react in a way that sends a message they believe is accurate and supports our goal: to have student learn. Since I believe the correct message is that showing up in class on time is an important part of studying, I try to adopt rules consistent with this message (one can feel differently about importance of showing up in class on time, but beware that a small proportion of student that can dispense from it should not hide a vast majority that cannot afford this).



                              The precise rule I adopt has changed over time. Lately, I have settled for the following: whenever a student shows up more than (literally) 1-2 minutes late, I ask her or him to wait outside; I finish what I was saying and let a little something to think about to the class; I go see the late student, and ask why he or she is late; I always let her or him get in, but make sure to mention being late is not a good thing; then I carry on with the course. This has I think a good balance, even in amphitheaters (first lectures I usually get a dozen late student at a time, then they mostly show up on time - or not at all).






                              share|improve this answer












                              When you are a TA, you have to follow the local rules and will have little power to change them (although you have every right to discuss them with colleagues). The way to do so, and the choice to do so in a more general situation, is an important matter.



                              Many colleagues, and many answer above dismiss the need to bother with attendance and lateness ("as long as it does not disturb the class"), on the ground that students are adults. I very much disagree with this argument. Since this is not a popular opinion, I feel the need to give some context and justification.



                              First, recall that there are many many situations where rules are made for people own good, even adults - mandatory belts in cars, for example (as in France, I do not know the law in other countries). When first enforced, this kind of rule tend to be rejected as treating people as children; after a time, they often get adopted and become obvious. Did people get more adult in the meantime? No, but our behavior, and what we consider proper behavior, is shaped by what others do and what rules (explicit or implicit, legal or traditional) are in force.



                              Second, recall that this applies to us academics, however grown up we are. Do you think that the attitude of staff when you turn your paperwork for your next conference late past the deadline has no bearing on your behavior next time? If administrative staff simply treats this as if it where normal, don't you think you would probably miss the deadline quite often? On the contrary, if they (respectfully) mention how much more difficult it makes their job, wouldn't you be more careful? Do you think it is necessarily treating faculty as children to have rules and deadlines for paperwork? Or can you see it is (in good cases) about all of us to interact smoothly and work efficiently? We all act according to a large set of rules, and good rules are those that have a good incentive/heaviness ratio. The most permissive rules are not necessarily optimal.



                              Similarly, students attitude toward "going into class" will be shaped by what they see other student do, and how teachers react to what they do. Simply ignoring late students, or student that only show up every other class, will send a very clear message: that it is okay to do so. In most cases, this message is actually detrimental to their study.



                              Teachers should not ignore that the way they react sends a message, and they should thus choose how to react in a way that sends a message they believe is accurate and supports our goal: to have student learn. Since I believe the correct message is that showing up in class on time is an important part of studying, I try to adopt rules consistent with this message (one can feel differently about importance of showing up in class on time, but beware that a small proportion of student that can dispense from it should not hide a vast majority that cannot afford this).



                              The precise rule I adopt has changed over time. Lately, I have settled for the following: whenever a student shows up more than (literally) 1-2 minutes late, I ask her or him to wait outside; I finish what I was saying and let a little something to think about to the class; I go see the late student, and ask why he or she is late; I always let her or him get in, but make sure to mention being late is not a good thing; then I carry on with the course. This has I think a good balance, even in amphitheaters (first lectures I usually get a dozen late student at a time, then they mostly show up on time - or not at all).







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered 19 hours ago









                              Benoît Kloeckner

                              13.3k3069




                              13.3k3069






















                                  up vote
                                  1
                                  down vote













                                  I taught at the university level for years and disagree with most of the above. Yes, students are "adults" but the ones traipsing in 5 or 10 mins late rarely are acting like them. They disrupt the class, and more importantly miss important notes or announcements, requiring YOU to consistently do extra work. If they are adults, they can decide whether to come to class or skip it, but if they come, they shouldn't be arriving after the door closes (give a couple minutes' grace period) and they shouldn't be asking YOU to handhold them the entire semester while they figure out to set their alarm clock.



                                  And since taking attendance is a requirement as noted by the OP's edit, his or her implementing of this will be evaluated and possibly become a part of the decision to rehire. So being lax about this or deciding to secretly not do it seems unwise.



                                  Anyone who's fine letting kids come in late doesn't understand how distracting to the REAL adults (instructor and kids who got there on time!!!) that policy is. And while you can certainly make an exception for the good student who has a flat tire that one day, being the prof who everyone knows will let you arrive any time will be a Pandora's Box that once opened, will be hard to close.



                                  Whatever policy you choose, make sure it's clearly in the syllabus and that you stick to it. But think about the students who CARE about your class, getting there on time, eager to learn, who have to put up with you admitting and addressing a stream of stragglers who arrive whenever they feel like it each time.






                                  share|improve this answer








                                  New contributor




                                  user1149499 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                                    up vote
                                    1
                                    down vote













                                    I taught at the university level for years and disagree with most of the above. Yes, students are "adults" but the ones traipsing in 5 or 10 mins late rarely are acting like them. They disrupt the class, and more importantly miss important notes or announcements, requiring YOU to consistently do extra work. If they are adults, they can decide whether to come to class or skip it, but if they come, they shouldn't be arriving after the door closes (give a couple minutes' grace period) and they shouldn't be asking YOU to handhold them the entire semester while they figure out to set their alarm clock.



                                    And since taking attendance is a requirement as noted by the OP's edit, his or her implementing of this will be evaluated and possibly become a part of the decision to rehire. So being lax about this or deciding to secretly not do it seems unwise.



                                    Anyone who's fine letting kids come in late doesn't understand how distracting to the REAL adults (instructor and kids who got there on time!!!) that policy is. And while you can certainly make an exception for the good student who has a flat tire that one day, being the prof who everyone knows will let you arrive any time will be a Pandora's Box that once opened, will be hard to close.



                                    Whatever policy you choose, make sure it's clearly in the syllabus and that you stick to it. But think about the students who CARE about your class, getting there on time, eager to learn, who have to put up with you admitting and addressing a stream of stragglers who arrive whenever they feel like it each time.






                                    share|improve this answer








                                    New contributor




                                    user1149499 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                    Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                                      up vote
                                      1
                                      down vote










                                      up vote
                                      1
                                      down vote









                                      I taught at the university level for years and disagree with most of the above. Yes, students are "adults" but the ones traipsing in 5 or 10 mins late rarely are acting like them. They disrupt the class, and more importantly miss important notes or announcements, requiring YOU to consistently do extra work. If they are adults, they can decide whether to come to class or skip it, but if they come, they shouldn't be arriving after the door closes (give a couple minutes' grace period) and they shouldn't be asking YOU to handhold them the entire semester while they figure out to set their alarm clock.



                                      And since taking attendance is a requirement as noted by the OP's edit, his or her implementing of this will be evaluated and possibly become a part of the decision to rehire. So being lax about this or deciding to secretly not do it seems unwise.



                                      Anyone who's fine letting kids come in late doesn't understand how distracting to the REAL adults (instructor and kids who got there on time!!!) that policy is. And while you can certainly make an exception for the good student who has a flat tire that one day, being the prof who everyone knows will let you arrive any time will be a Pandora's Box that once opened, will be hard to close.



                                      Whatever policy you choose, make sure it's clearly in the syllabus and that you stick to it. But think about the students who CARE about your class, getting there on time, eager to learn, who have to put up with you admitting and addressing a stream of stragglers who arrive whenever they feel like it each time.






                                      share|improve this answer








                                      New contributor




                                      user1149499 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                      I taught at the university level for years and disagree with most of the above. Yes, students are "adults" but the ones traipsing in 5 or 10 mins late rarely are acting like them. They disrupt the class, and more importantly miss important notes or announcements, requiring YOU to consistently do extra work. If they are adults, they can decide whether to come to class or skip it, but if they come, they shouldn't be arriving after the door closes (give a couple minutes' grace period) and they shouldn't be asking YOU to handhold them the entire semester while they figure out to set their alarm clock.



                                      And since taking attendance is a requirement as noted by the OP's edit, his or her implementing of this will be evaluated and possibly become a part of the decision to rehire. So being lax about this or deciding to secretly not do it seems unwise.



                                      Anyone who's fine letting kids come in late doesn't understand how distracting to the REAL adults (instructor and kids who got there on time!!!) that policy is. And while you can certainly make an exception for the good student who has a flat tire that one day, being the prof who everyone knows will let you arrive any time will be a Pandora's Box that once opened, will be hard to close.



                                      Whatever policy you choose, make sure it's clearly in the syllabus and that you stick to it. But think about the students who CARE about your class, getting there on time, eager to learn, who have to put up with you admitting and addressing a stream of stragglers who arrive whenever they feel like it each time.







                                      share|improve this answer








                                      New contributor




                                      user1149499 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer






                                      New contributor




                                      user1149499 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                      Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                      answered 5 hours ago









                                      user1149499

                                      111




                                      111




                                      New contributor




                                      user1149499 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                      Check out our Code of Conduct.





                                      New contributor





                                      user1149499 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                      Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                      user1149499 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                      Check out our Code of Conduct.






















                                          up vote
                                          1
                                          down vote













                                          Most of the answers are very tolerant. Since this is obviously a matter of preference, I always went for 4 (close the doors and nobody comes in after my lecture started).



                                          Missing one class is not the end of the world for them. It will, however, teach them something: that time is valuable and that they must make whatever they can to be on time. Even if it means being there 15 minutes early because of an unfortunate train connection.



                                          Being late of course happens, and the world will usually not be waiting for you. You were late for the plane, it is gone. You were late for a doctor appointment, the next patient jumped in.



                                          This is simply life and being late is often a decision, and sometime bad luck.



                                          If being late means that they will get sick, die, or miss a once-in-a-life opportunity then laxism is welcome. Otherwise this is just teaching them that the world is what it is, and being on time is an asset.



                                          Today, outside of academia, I start my meetings sharp. If someone is late then I never summarize what happened earlier in the meeting (I do not usually have, technically, the possibility to block them).



                                          One last point to take into account is the commute between courses or meetings: people think that this is done over teleportation.



                                          I finish the meetings / courses I am in control of a few minutes early but if I stuck with one which finishes sharp and the next one starts sharp as well I make decisions. To leave early or to be late (and possibly miss the meeting), at least until teleportation is a thing. If your course is right behind the one of someone who has no understanding that commute time is necessary then you may start yours 5 minutes later (I did this a few times not to penalize the students because of decisions outside their control)






                                          share|improve this answer



















                                          • 4




                                            That may work in some places but many campuses don't allow sufficient time for all students to make it between lectures (especially disabled students). I've taught labs where a large subset of the students were expected to walk from another site in zero time, a walk that took me 10 minutes.
                                            – Chris H
                                            6 hours ago










                                          • @ChrisH: this is exactly why I mentioned that some people think that teleportation works between meetings/courses and plan the timings around this ridiculous idea (those people are idiots and should be treated as such when there is an opportunity). One should either put pressure so that courses take this into account, or be the reasonable/kind person who will be starting the class a bit later (clearly announcing it, and that after the initial 5 minutes the class is closed). This also means not starting on tile as one cannot penalized the ones who are on time (within the 5 minutes).
                                            – WoJ
                                            3 hours ago















                                          up vote
                                          1
                                          down vote













                                          Most of the answers are very tolerant. Since this is obviously a matter of preference, I always went for 4 (close the doors and nobody comes in after my lecture started).



                                          Missing one class is not the end of the world for them. It will, however, teach them something: that time is valuable and that they must make whatever they can to be on time. Even if it means being there 15 minutes early because of an unfortunate train connection.



                                          Being late of course happens, and the world will usually not be waiting for you. You were late for the plane, it is gone. You were late for a doctor appointment, the next patient jumped in.



                                          This is simply life and being late is often a decision, and sometime bad luck.



                                          If being late means that they will get sick, die, or miss a once-in-a-life opportunity then laxism is welcome. Otherwise this is just teaching them that the world is what it is, and being on time is an asset.



                                          Today, outside of academia, I start my meetings sharp. If someone is late then I never summarize what happened earlier in the meeting (I do not usually have, technically, the possibility to block them).



                                          One last point to take into account is the commute between courses or meetings: people think that this is done over teleportation.



                                          I finish the meetings / courses I am in control of a few minutes early but if I stuck with one which finishes sharp and the next one starts sharp as well I make decisions. To leave early or to be late (and possibly miss the meeting), at least until teleportation is a thing. If your course is right behind the one of someone who has no understanding that commute time is necessary then you may start yours 5 minutes later (I did this a few times not to penalize the students because of decisions outside their control)






                                          share|improve this answer



















                                          • 4




                                            That may work in some places but many campuses don't allow sufficient time for all students to make it between lectures (especially disabled students). I've taught labs where a large subset of the students were expected to walk from another site in zero time, a walk that took me 10 minutes.
                                            – Chris H
                                            6 hours ago










                                          • @ChrisH: this is exactly why I mentioned that some people think that teleportation works between meetings/courses and plan the timings around this ridiculous idea (those people are idiots and should be treated as such when there is an opportunity). One should either put pressure so that courses take this into account, or be the reasonable/kind person who will be starting the class a bit later (clearly announcing it, and that after the initial 5 minutes the class is closed). This also means not starting on tile as one cannot penalized the ones who are on time (within the 5 minutes).
                                            – WoJ
                                            3 hours ago













                                          up vote
                                          1
                                          down vote










                                          up vote
                                          1
                                          down vote









                                          Most of the answers are very tolerant. Since this is obviously a matter of preference, I always went for 4 (close the doors and nobody comes in after my lecture started).



                                          Missing one class is not the end of the world for them. It will, however, teach them something: that time is valuable and that they must make whatever they can to be on time. Even if it means being there 15 minutes early because of an unfortunate train connection.



                                          Being late of course happens, and the world will usually not be waiting for you. You were late for the plane, it is gone. You were late for a doctor appointment, the next patient jumped in.



                                          This is simply life and being late is often a decision, and sometime bad luck.



                                          If being late means that they will get sick, die, or miss a once-in-a-life opportunity then laxism is welcome. Otherwise this is just teaching them that the world is what it is, and being on time is an asset.



                                          Today, outside of academia, I start my meetings sharp. If someone is late then I never summarize what happened earlier in the meeting (I do not usually have, technically, the possibility to block them).



                                          One last point to take into account is the commute between courses or meetings: people think that this is done over teleportation.



                                          I finish the meetings / courses I am in control of a few minutes early but if I stuck with one which finishes sharp and the next one starts sharp as well I make decisions. To leave early or to be late (and possibly miss the meeting), at least until teleportation is a thing. If your course is right behind the one of someone who has no understanding that commute time is necessary then you may start yours 5 minutes later (I did this a few times not to penalize the students because of decisions outside their control)






                                          share|improve this answer














                                          Most of the answers are very tolerant. Since this is obviously a matter of preference, I always went for 4 (close the doors and nobody comes in after my lecture started).



                                          Missing one class is not the end of the world for them. It will, however, teach them something: that time is valuable and that they must make whatever they can to be on time. Even if it means being there 15 minutes early because of an unfortunate train connection.



                                          Being late of course happens, and the world will usually not be waiting for you. You were late for the plane, it is gone. You were late for a doctor appointment, the next patient jumped in.



                                          This is simply life and being late is often a decision, and sometime bad luck.



                                          If being late means that they will get sick, die, or miss a once-in-a-life opportunity then laxism is welcome. Otherwise this is just teaching them that the world is what it is, and being on time is an asset.



                                          Today, outside of academia, I start my meetings sharp. If someone is late then I never summarize what happened earlier in the meeting (I do not usually have, technically, the possibility to block them).



                                          One last point to take into account is the commute between courses or meetings: people think that this is done over teleportation.



                                          I finish the meetings / courses I am in control of a few minutes early but if I stuck with one which finishes sharp and the next one starts sharp as well I make decisions. To leave early or to be late (and possibly miss the meeting), at least until teleportation is a thing. If your course is right behind the one of someone who has no understanding that commute time is necessary then you may start yours 5 minutes later (I did this a few times not to penalize the students because of decisions outside their control)







                                          share|improve this answer














                                          share|improve this answer



                                          share|improve this answer








                                          edited 3 hours ago

























                                          answered 7 hours ago









                                          WoJ

                                          2,453714




                                          2,453714








                                          • 4




                                            That may work in some places but many campuses don't allow sufficient time for all students to make it between lectures (especially disabled students). I've taught labs where a large subset of the students were expected to walk from another site in zero time, a walk that took me 10 minutes.
                                            – Chris H
                                            6 hours ago










                                          • @ChrisH: this is exactly why I mentioned that some people think that teleportation works between meetings/courses and plan the timings around this ridiculous idea (those people are idiots and should be treated as such when there is an opportunity). One should either put pressure so that courses take this into account, or be the reasonable/kind person who will be starting the class a bit later (clearly announcing it, and that after the initial 5 minutes the class is closed). This also means not starting on tile as one cannot penalized the ones who are on time (within the 5 minutes).
                                            – WoJ
                                            3 hours ago














                                          • 4




                                            That may work in some places but many campuses don't allow sufficient time for all students to make it between lectures (especially disabled students). I've taught labs where a large subset of the students were expected to walk from another site in zero time, a walk that took me 10 minutes.
                                            – Chris H
                                            6 hours ago










                                          • @ChrisH: this is exactly why I mentioned that some people think that teleportation works between meetings/courses and plan the timings around this ridiculous idea (those people are idiots and should be treated as such when there is an opportunity). One should either put pressure so that courses take this into account, or be the reasonable/kind person who will be starting the class a bit later (clearly announcing it, and that after the initial 5 minutes the class is closed). This also means not starting on tile as one cannot penalized the ones who are on time (within the 5 minutes).
                                            – WoJ
                                            3 hours ago








                                          4




                                          4




                                          That may work in some places but many campuses don't allow sufficient time for all students to make it between lectures (especially disabled students). I've taught labs where a large subset of the students were expected to walk from another site in zero time, a walk that took me 10 minutes.
                                          – Chris H
                                          6 hours ago




                                          That may work in some places but many campuses don't allow sufficient time for all students to make it between lectures (especially disabled students). I've taught labs where a large subset of the students were expected to walk from another site in zero time, a walk that took me 10 minutes.
                                          – Chris H
                                          6 hours ago












                                          @ChrisH: this is exactly why I mentioned that some people think that teleportation works between meetings/courses and plan the timings around this ridiculous idea (those people are idiots and should be treated as such when there is an opportunity). One should either put pressure so that courses take this into account, or be the reasonable/kind person who will be starting the class a bit later (clearly announcing it, and that after the initial 5 minutes the class is closed). This also means not starting on tile as one cannot penalized the ones who are on time (within the 5 minutes).
                                          – WoJ
                                          3 hours ago




                                          @ChrisH: this is exactly why I mentioned that some people think that teleportation works between meetings/courses and plan the timings around this ridiculous idea (those people are idiots and should be treated as such when there is an opportunity). One should either put pressure so that courses take this into account, or be the reasonable/kind person who will be starting the class a bit later (clearly announcing it, and that after the initial 5 minutes the class is closed). This also means not starting on tile as one cannot penalized the ones who are on time (within the 5 minutes).
                                          – WoJ
                                          3 hours ago


















                                           

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