Should I send professors 10 dollars for illegally downloading their books?

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I illegally download almost all the books I need for my studies. While I'm more than happy to give a middle-finger to the publisher mafia, it does of course mean that the author of the book is not appropiately compensated for their work.

But ... it is well-known that professors do not make substantial amounts of money for each copy sold of their textbook. Perhaps 5-15 % of the sales price of each unit sold. This usually corresponds to roughly 5-10 dollars.

With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading? If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

edited yesterday

Buffy

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James

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27

Hmmm. Is this the same e-book that you want to be able to read in class against another professor's wishes? See: academia.stackexchange.com/q/120246/75368
– Buffy
yesterday

1

Comments about book prizes, alternative solutions, and comments as answers have been moved to chat. Please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
10 hours ago

1

While this is a fair and valid question, it raises ethical ideas that would be better discussed on another forum. OK I don't see ethics, but philosophy or somewhere in that direction.
– RedSonja
9 hours ago

28

You're concerned that the author is not appropriately compensated. How about the employees of the publishing house who proofread the book, or helped format it, or converted it into ebook form, or maintain the website that it was originally downloaded from before being uploaded to whaever pirate site you obtained it from? None of them are being compensated for their work either, and yet you're benefiting from it. This isn't necessarily a moral judgement; just curious why you feel the author should be compensated but not those other people; the answer might help you find an appropriate solution.
– anaximander
8 hours ago

2

"...would it be appropiate to..." This seems to be a rather subjective term. You should define "appropriate" before (and then the answer will probably become clear to you already). For a Q&A like the StackeExchanges this is not a good fit, since answers will mostly be opinionated and akin to just polls where nobody learns anything. One can possibly pose different questions that would be quite interesting (something like "Why are scientific text books so expensive?" or "Why are authors only paid a small share of the total selling price?").
– Trilarion
7 hours ago

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edited yesterday

Buffy

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James

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27

Hmmm. Is this the same e-book that you want to be able to read in class against another professor's wishes? See: academia.stackexchange.com/q/120246/75368
– Buffy
yesterday

1

Comments about book prizes, alternative solutions, and comments as answers have been moved to chat. Please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
10 hours ago

1

While this is a fair and valid question, it raises ethical ideas that would be better discussed on another forum. OK I don't see ethics, but philosophy or somewhere in that direction.
– RedSonja
9 hours ago

28

You're concerned that the author is not appropriately compensated. How about the employees of the publishing house who proofread the book, or helped format it, or converted it into ebook form, or maintain the website that it was originally downloaded from before being uploaded to whaever pirate site you obtained it from? None of them are being compensated for their work either, and yet you're benefiting from it. This isn't necessarily a moral judgement; just curious why you feel the author should be compensated but not those other people; the answer might help you find an appropriate solution.
– anaximander
8 hours ago

2

"...would it be appropiate to..." This seems to be a rather subjective term. You should define "appropriate" before (and then the answer will probably become clear to you already). For a Q&A like the StackeExchanges this is not a good fit, since answers will mostly be opinionated and akin to just polls where nobody learns anything. One can possibly pose different questions that would be quite interesting (something like "Why are scientific text books so expensive?" or "Why are authors only paid a small share of the total selling price?").
– Trilarion
7 hours ago

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Buffy

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ethics books intellectual-property

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27

Hmmm. Is this the same e-book that you want to be able to read in class against another professor's wishes? See: academia.stackexchange.com/q/120246/75368
– Buffy
yesterday

1

Comments about book prizes, alternative solutions, and comments as answers have been moved to chat. Please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
10 hours ago

1

While this is a fair and valid question, it raises ethical ideas that would be better discussed on another forum. OK I don't see ethics, but philosophy or somewhere in that direction.
– RedSonja
9 hours ago

28

You're concerned that the author is not appropriately compensated. How about the employees of the publishing house who proofread the book, or helped format it, or converted it into ebook form, or maintain the website that it was originally downloaded from before being uploaded to whaever pirate site you obtained it from? None of them are being compensated for their work either, and yet you're benefiting from it. This isn't necessarily a moral judgement; just curious why you feel the author should be compensated but not those other people; the answer might help you find an appropriate solution.
– anaximander
8 hours ago

2

"...would it be appropiate to..." This seems to be a rather subjective term. You should define "appropriate" before (and then the answer will probably become clear to you already). For a Q&A like the StackeExchanges this is not a good fit, since answers will mostly be opinionated and akin to just polls where nobody learns anything. One can possibly pose different questions that would be quite interesting (something like "Why are scientific text books so expensive?" or "Why are authors only paid a small share of the total selling price?").
– Trilarion
7 hours ago

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27

Hmmm. Is this the same e-book that you want to be able to read in class against another professor's wishes? See: academia.stackexchange.com/q/120246/75368
– Buffy
yesterday

1

Comments about book prizes, alternative solutions, and comments as answers have been moved to chat. Please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
10 hours ago

1

While this is a fair and valid question, it raises ethical ideas that would be better discussed on another forum. OK I don't see ethics, but philosophy or somewhere in that direction.
– RedSonja
9 hours ago

28

You're concerned that the author is not appropriately compensated. How about the employees of the publishing house who proofread the book, or helped format it, or converted it into ebook form, or maintain the website that it was originally downloaded from before being uploaded to whaever pirate site you obtained it from? None of them are being compensated for their work either, and yet you're benefiting from it. This isn't necessarily a moral judgement; just curious why you feel the author should be compensated but not those other people; the answer might help you find an appropriate solution.
– anaximander
8 hours ago

2

"...would it be appropiate to..." This seems to be a rather subjective term. You should define "appropriate" before (and then the answer will probably become clear to you already). For a Q&A like the StackeExchanges this is not a good fit, since answers will mostly be opinionated and akin to just polls where nobody learns anything. One can possibly pose different questions that would be quite interesting (something like "Why are scientific text books so expensive?" or "Why are authors only paid a small share of the total selling price?").
– Trilarion
7 hours ago

Hmmm. Is this the same e-book that you want to be able to read in class against another professor's wishes? See: academia.stackexchange.com/q/120246/75368
– Buffy
yesterday

Comments about book prizes, alternative solutions, and comments as answers have been moved to chat. Please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
10 hours ago

While this is a fair and valid question, it raises ethical ideas that would be better discussed on another forum. OK I don't see ethics, but philosophy or somewhere in that direction.
– RedSonja
9 hours ago

You're concerned that the author is not appropriately compensated. How about the employees of the publishing house who proofread the book, or helped format it, or converted it into ebook form, or maintain the website that it was originally downloaded from before being uploaded to whaever pirate site you obtained it from? None of them are being compensated for their work either, and yet you're benefiting from it. This isn't necessarily a moral judgement; just curious why you feel the author should be compensated but not those other people; the answer might help you find an appropriate solution.
– anaximander
8 hours ago

"...would it be appropiate to..." This seems to be a rather subjective term. You should define "appropriate" before (and then the answer will probably become clear to you already). For a Q&A like the StackeExchanges this is not a good fit, since answers will mostly be opinionated and akin to just polls where nobody learns anything. One can possibly pose different questions that would be quite interesting (something like "Why are scientific text books so expensive?" or "Why are authors only paid a small share of the total selling price?").
– Trilarion
7 hours ago

|
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12 Answers
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With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?

First, I would be concerned about your legal exposure. You would be effectively admitting piracy.

Second, you cannot unilaterally change the terms of sale. When the professor published the book, they agreed to sell it through the publisher in exchange for certain terms. The legal and (in my view) ethical options are to accept or decline these terms; you cannot invent and execute your own terms instead, even if they seem reasonable. In short, this is a rationalization. (That said, I personally am sympathetic to your concerns about publishing companies exploiting college students.)

Thus, the "appropriate" thing to do is to buy the books through legal channels.

If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

Not a professor, but I have taught and written a book with thousands of copies sold. I'm sure I am losing money due to piracy, but I have never received a payment like you describe.

Realistically, if I were to receive cash anonymously, I would probably chuckle and pocket the cash, or maybe set it aside for a few years to see if anything came of it.

If I received money from a known student, I would be very concerned about the appearance of impropriety, and would not accept it. I would also be concerned about whether I should report the piracy, though I probably wouldn't.

If this "caught on" and I was receiving a non-negligible amount of money from many pirates, I would have to talk to the publisher and seek guidance.

edited yesterday

answered yesterday

cag51

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2 hours ago

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I find the moralistic tone of some of the other answers a bit distasteful, and also unhelpful. It’s pretty clear to me that you didn’t come here to ask for a general lecture about the pros and cons of piracy of textbooks and other digital content, and that is the sort of knowledge that already exists in a zillion different places and isn’t worth repeating. You had specific questions that aren’t addressed anywhere else, so I’ll try to answer them.

With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?

I don’t find anything inappropriate about the act of sending $10 to a book author, no matter the reason. However, I should emphasize that that doesn’t mean that I think everything you’ve described yourself doing is “appropriate”. And to the extent that some of the other things you are doing are inappropriate, they will still be inappropriate even if you send $10 to book authors.

If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

Well, I am a professor who authored a book.^* I would be a little amused, but mostly indifferent. I wouldn’t think more of you for doing it, but I wouldn’t think less of you (compared to my opinion of someone who pirated my book but didn’t send me $10, that is) either. I would likely think that you had decent intentions, but were expressing them in a way that was somewhat misguided.

Should I send professors 10 dollars for illegally downloading their books?

The sending of $10 to authors by itself is not a terrible idea and on the face of it is mostly just harmless and inconsequential (as opposed to the act of piracy itself, which is a lot more consequential but is not what you asked about, so I won’t discuss it). I’d still advise against it, but not for any of the reasons other people mentioned. Mostly I think that if you went ahead with it it would be a way for you to delude yourself into thinking that this act cleanses your conscience and absolves you of ethical responsibility for the act of illegally downloading the book. It is a kind of a cop-out: you want to download books illegally but also want to think that you’re an ethical person, so you’ve come up with this plan to allow yourself to think that you’ve achieved both goals but for a fraction of the “normal” price. Well, I’m afraid you don’t get off so easily. Ethics doesn’t work that way.

To summarize, I can’t tell you what you should do, but whatever you do, my advice is, own your actions. If you choose to download books illegally, do so after informing yourself about precisely what that means and what the consequences (ethical and otherwise) are — for yourself, for book authors, for publishers, for other readers and people who would have become readers of books that might never get published, etc — and make sure you can defend your decision and be at peace with it. But don’t go for half-baked solutions like sending some pittance to the book author to help yourself feel better and pretend you don’t need to think about the issue anymore. The truth is, you do need to think more about the issue. It is a complicated issue and the level of thinking about it where I think you’re currently at is only beginning to scratch the surface of its true complexity.

Thanks for the interesting question!

^*Actually my book cannot be pirated since I give the digital copy away for free on my website (for a variety of reasons, including the knowledge that if I don’t then a pirated copy would likely be available anyway), with my publisher’s permission of course. What I wrote above about how I would feel refers to my best attempt at imagining a hypothetical scenario in which I wrote a book that I was not giving away digitally for free. But I think it’s a fairly accurate guess anyway.

edited 16 hours ago

answered yesterday

Dan Romik

80k20175269

21

The legal ramifications of sending money to someone to make amends for piracy is not something to be taken lightly. It is not only about the taxes the reciever has to pay, but now the reciever is selling bootleg copies of his work, the publisher might intervene quite harshly.
– Bent
yesterday

9

What disturbs me about the whole idea is the following: the legal aspect is the legal aspect and there are various views on that (I support the Open Access perspective; the EU has made a great effort to enforce it) - however, the OP tries to recruit the prof into their view of how legitimate author reimbursement should look like. This is what really disturbs me about this proposal; not every accepter of the money would realise that they play along the arbitrarily made-up game rules of OP.
– Captain Emacs
yesterday

6

@Bent if someone sent me $10 without asking me, I wouldn’t consider myself to have “stolen bootleg copies of my work”, nor do I think that I would be legally complicit in an illegal sale in any way (think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10). It should be very clear, what OP decides to do is %100 on him.
– Dan Romik
yesterday

2

"think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10". You've got it wrong. A person can not be made a criminal by someone sending him money. But you force the person to do something. If the person decides to keep the money it is income, the reason in this case is compensation for a bootleg copy. Now he is in conflict with the contract with the publisher. Return the money? But to whom? I assume the money is send without return address. The only option left is to report it to the police. cont
– Bent
yesterday

3

cont.. if a bank in error puts money into your account you are required by law to report it to the bank. You cannot just leave the money, or worse spend it, even if it is not your fault. In this case you either know the money is for a bootleg copy of a book or, in fact, even worse you do not know what it is for. The law require you to assume the worst in such a case. You are not a criminal for someone sending you money, but you are for not making every effort to make sure you are not doing something wrong.
– Bent
yesterday

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up vote
22
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After thinking about it a bit more, I wouldn't do this. Here's a few reasons:

The professor will have to waste their time trying to decide whether or not to accept your offer, and surely they have better things to do.

They may have to declare such sources of income if they become large enough, so you're creating issues for them w/o offering much help.

You need to hide your identity otherwise it will be obvious you've breached anti-piracy laws.

The publisher may or may not have contributed considerably to the book (e.g. editing, advertising) and cutting them out of the picture goes "too far" in the direction of rewarding the content creator and denying rewards to the content distributor.

In short then, I wouldn't do this.

However, also I disagree with Buffy's answer. Ebooks are a non-rival good. Hence the ethics of "stealing" them is pretty complicated, and in my view there are situations where "stealing" a non-rival good is permissible or even obligatory. It's inaccurate to call this "simple theft" in my opinion. In any event, whether you send them money or not, I wouldn't feel too guilty about this.

edited yesterday

answered yesterday

goblin

58828

6

This is a well-reasoned answer until the last sentence -- can you expand on why you "wouldn't feel too guilty"? Certainly if everyone pirated their textbooks, we wouldn't have textbooks anymore; therefore, OP is expecting everyone else to pay while he gets his for free -- guilt seems altogether appropriate to me, whether we call it "stealing" or something else.
– cag51
yesterday

4

@cag51, my position is roughly: if an ebook is on sale for $70 and it has $90 of value for you, buy it. If it has $50 of value for you, then obviously you're not going to buy it. So you either get some value from this ebook (by "stealing" it) or you don't (by not "stealing" it.) Therefore you should "steal" it, since society ends up $50 better off overall if and only if you you "steal" it. And if, upon reading it you find that the total value to you has exceeded $70, then you should buy it.
– goblin
yesterday

13

@goblin that's a pretty convenient way to self-define ethics..
– Patrick Trentin
yesterday

2

@PatrickTrentin Well, if you are happy living by other people's ethics that's your right.
– Nobody
20 hours ago

2

@StackTracer - not sure I understand, you want to abolish textbooks?
– cag51
13 hours ago

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20
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Actually, what you should do, if you want to behave ethically, is purchase legal copies of the books you've stolen.

answered yesterday

Buffy

29.6k692156

12

@Buffy: I voted your answer down because it fits the too-common antipattern of answering an ethical question of the form "how can I do this better?" by "you should not do it at all". There are some cases where this is a good answer, but this isn't one of them, and in either case the answer is comment-length and devoid of justification. I am used to much better from you.
– darij grinberg
yesterday

21

I agree with this answer except for the word “stolen”. Digital piracy is ethically problematic and in many (possibly most) circumstances unethical, but it is not identical to, and should not be conflated with, theft. I downvoted the answer because of this inaccuracy, but will undo my downvote if you edit the answer to correct this issue.
– Dan Romik
yesterday

12

Downvoted because you don't offer an argument, merely an assertion. It's not self-evident that downloading books illegally is immoral.
– Ben Crowell
yesterday

I moved longer discussions in comments to chat and just left the hooks, i.e., the direct criticisms of the answer. Please continue discussing in chat. Also, please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
10 hours ago

2

Upvoted because this is the answer of what to do if you find yourself in possession of a pirated book. 1. You inspect it and you don't need it, so you delete it. 2. You decide you like it so you buy a legal copy. Sounds daft, but a friend once gave me pirated copies of his favourite books. I read a few paragraphs of each, then bought the ones I liked, and deleted the others.
– RedSonja
9 hours ago

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up vote
17
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If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

I'd feel extremely annoyed. You're not only doing something illegal, you're cheating someone of their work. This wouldn't be because of money - it's very unlikely I wrote the book to make money. It'd be about justice and fairness, concepts which are too core to my values to compromise for $10. Plus the fact that you pirated my book means someone with even less scruples than you could also have pirated it.

My likely reaction is to notify the publisher at once, and if it comes to a lawsuit, I'd testify against you.

answered yesterday

Allure

23.4k1371121

1

This answers the question better than some higher-voted answers. I'm curious whether your described feelings are just about piracy in general, or also something you would feel as a reaction to somebody gifting you 10$ because they value your work but with the fact that they pirated it? I mean, is your answer saying that you would focus on the piracy part, even if it was a given fact already that your book was pirated X times?
– lucidbrot
yesterday

2

I expect everything you wear and eat is ethically sourced, yes?
– Ivana
7 hours ago

1

@Ivana Why would you expect that? There's a big difference between compromising for $10 that you can obviously source, and putting all the time and effort into sourcing all ethical food and clothing. They never said they could never compromise justice and fairness, just not for $10.
– JMac
3 hours ago

2

OP is not cheating anybody out of anything. You still have all of your work after someone makes a digital copy of it. "Justice and fairness"? Not at all. However - this is a good answer for OP to read, so that s/he realizes it's dangerous to send those 10 dollars.
– einpoklum
1 hour ago

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up vote
8
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Undertake a sincere and useful civic action as penance for your (somewhat self-righteously defended) abuse. Collect all the students at your university. Sign a petition to your state representative (or equivalent for outside the US). State your case with proof rather than subjective statements such as "... it is well-known that". Demonstrate why you believe that publishers hold the equivalent of a virtual monopoly on textbooks, for example because they keep the costs to enter the textbook publishing business at a prohibitive level. Demonstrate where you find their business model has increased the expense of textbooks unfairly, for example because relatively higher portions of the costs for a textbook are going to pay salaries at upper administrative levels. State a case for how this is causing the cost of education to be well beyond the means of today's college students even with loans. Propose and demand appropriate legislative action to fix the problem.

Start a movement that will do something beyond raising a (rather disrespectful) attitude about the problem and then asking for moral support in a discussion forum for what amounts to a penny that will be given in disdain. In other words, as much as I emphasize with the pain any student faces with covering the costs of textbooks, my proposal absolutely will not make right the action of effectively stealing a textbook. If nothing else, it is only a far better penance than sending money to the author.

edited 16 hours ago

answered yesterday

Jeffrey J Weimer

1,213110

2

I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.
– Buffy
yesterday

1

While the relative cost may be low, it is still a substantial out of pocket expense. Loans and scholarships do not pay for the textbooks. As I stand now on the other side, I am pained to see students struggle to have to buy books that are, as you say, well beyond the costs that should be reasonable. I can buy a smart phone today at nearly the same cost as I paid for my first programmable TI calculator back then. Why can't I buy a textbook today for the same cost as back then? Is the paper today made of gold or platinum?
– Jeffrey J Weimer
yesterday

2

See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law. There is no such law for paper.
– Buffy
yesterday

1

Yes. Moore's law. But then, one might expect the same forces in play to decrease cost across all industries. Alternatively, we might agree that paper costs increase, but realize the material's costs in a book are but a fraction of the net costs anyway. I am not in favor of using tax revenues for social rebalancing here. I'd rather see action toward recognition of publishers as monopolies. I see it from the other side as well with the explosion of costs for journal subscriptions for our libraries. We digress.
– Jeffrey J Weimer
yesterday

1

Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.
– Buffy
yesterday

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up vote
4
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You got a textbook illegally, without paying, but you are thinking about giving some money to the author. That puts you ahead of many people.

The implementation is not too good. If you send $10 to the author, that is income to the author, which needs to be declared if the author wants to stay legal himself.

I would recommend that you figure out how much the book was worth to you, and donate that amount of money to a charity.

answered yesterday

gnasher729

1,23058

1

Sorry, that is just a "feel good" act that doesn't address the problem in any way. Of course it is good to donate to charity in any case, but not just to make yourself feel better for a wrong you did.
– Buffy
yesterday

1

@Buffy: Nirvana fallacy. Illegally copying books and then donating money to a charity is not as good as paying for the books, but better than illegally copying books and not donating money to a charity.
– gnasher729
23 hours ago

4

Hmmm. So, I take an IPad from the Apple store without paying. Then donating half its value to my favorite charity makes it ok? Or taking a 50 cent candy bar from my corner store and then dropping a quarter into the Sunday collection plate. Fine? Is there a fallacy of "pretend ethical behavior", I wonder? FWIW, I think my Toyota was greatly overpriced and the dealer has some policies I don't like. Hmmm.
– Buffy
22 hours ago

3

@Buffy gnasher didn’t say it “makes it okay”, just that it’s better than OP’s proposed action. Sounds correct to me, and closer to being an answer to OP’s actual question than what you wrote (which is also mostly correct). And to answer your question, donating half the value of the stolen iPad to charity doesn’t make it okay, but it’s preferable to just stealing an iPad. How does this rhetorical question advance the discussion exactly? Everything you’ve written here only addresses the question “is it okay to illegally download books?” rather than OP’s actual (and different) question.
– Dan Romik
17 hours ago

6

@DanRomik, no, you are not correct. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.
– Buffy
17 hours ago

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up vote
3
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It sounds like you would be sending the money anonymously, presumably cash in the mail, and that raises another point: receiving anonymous mail can make people nervous.

My instinctual guess on receiving an anonymous envelope would be that it's going to be something unpleasant: a scam, or hate mail, or sexual harassment, or crazy ranting, or (in this day and age) maybe anthrax. "Money from a reader who pirated my book" is not going to make the top 10. There's a fair chance that I might destroy it without opening it.

At the very least, for many people, it'll cause them more than $10 worth of anxiety. If your goal is to do something nice for the author, this seems likely to achieve the opposite.

answered 18 hours ago

Nate Eldredge

102k32291392

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up vote
1
down vote

I think a reasonable answer would be to create an anonymous email account and ask those authors this question. That said, I wouldn't worry about any full (tenured) professors' going hungry, nor would I worry about the publishers, who have an obscene profit motive with hugely inflated costs (and a very wasteful business model). There is a reason why there is huge consolidation in publishing: it is a capital intensive, highly profitable business. If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket and a desire to make a contribution, then find some way of puting that money toward the book purchases of someone less able to afford them.

answered yesterday

jeffmcneill

1273

New contributor

11

The only answer the author can give without getting themselves on legal trouble is to tell you to abide to the law and legally purchase a copy of the book. Otherwise, they would be advising you to break the law stole from their partner (the publisher). In fact, jeffmcneill's reasonable answer seems a great scheme to fish for material to blackmail authors.
– Pere
yesterday

add a comment |

up vote
1
down vote

Absolutely don't do it!

I illegally download almost all the books I need for my studies.

Don't be so sure it's illegal. You didn't specify where in the world you live, nor where the books were published, but in some countries it's perfectly legal, and in some other countries it's a gray area, despite opinions to the contrary.

While I'm more than happy to give a middle-finger to the publisher mafia, it does of course mean that the author of the book is not appropriately compensated for their work.

You seem to be assuming there is some damage or loss to the author of someone making a copy of his/her book, for which s/he needs to be compensated. That is the subject of philosophical, political and at times legal debate.

But ... it is well-known that professors do not make substantial amounts of money for each copy sold of their textbook.

No, this is not well known at all; some academics lose money due to publishing books and/or get no money per copy sold. What is, however, generally the case is that Professors are employed full-time and need not worry about their material welfare due to more or less money coming in from book sales.

With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?

So, it would probably not be necessary even from a moral/social/political perspective. But it would dangerous, since you would be waving a flag above your head calling to be investigated for copyright violation. Regardless of what such a turn of events will result in, it would mean hassle, stress, expenses and discomfort for you and your family, roommates, friends etc.

If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

I would feel sorry for having put a student of my work at risk of legal action, fine or jail time; and I would also feel sorry for having taken 10 dollars from a likely much less well-off person who probably needs the money more than I do.

... instead, do something else:

You know, "pay it forward":

If you know of a cause the author supports - consider donating to it.

If you're writing some academic material or software - consider making it freely-downloadable, officially.

If you're just an undergrad - perhaps do some kind of volunteer work, like helping high-school students who are having trouble keep up with some tutoring.

answered 2 hours ago

einpoklum

22.4k137130

add a comment |

up vote
0
down vote

There is a financial aspect you should also consider: these professors will receive unexpected money they need to somehow

declare or not

explain the provenance of, if someone (tax office, financial fraud groups, etc.) asks them

Both cases are probably over the top for 10 USD (and you will likely be only one to send them the money) but can be stressful to them.

Send the money to a charity instead.

answered 44 mins ago

WoJ

2,453714

add a comment |

up vote
-1
down vote

No,If it for personal use is fine, but if you trying to make money of it, then that would be a crime, he should understand student not rich.

answered 15 hours ago

arsyad power

New contributor

3

This is off-topic: The OP most likely has already formed their opinion about the legitimacy of pirating the book, and is asking about the practicality of their preferred method of compensation.
– darij grinberg
15 hours ago

This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
– Scientist
38 mins ago

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12 Answers
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12 Answers
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active

oldest

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up vote
100
down vote

With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?

First, I would be concerned about your legal exposure. You would be effectively admitting piracy.

Thus, the "appropriate" thing to do is to buy the books through legal channels.

If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

Not a professor, but I have taught and written a book with thousands of copies sold. I'm sure I am losing money due to piracy, but I have never received a payment like you describe.

Realistically, if I were to receive cash anonymously, I would probably chuckle and pocket the cash, or maybe set it aside for a few years to see if anything came of it.

If I received money from a known student, I would be very concerned about the appearance of impropriety, and would not accept it. I would also be concerned about whether I should report the piracy, though I probably wouldn't.

If this "caught on" and I was receiving a non-negligible amount of money from many pirates, I would have to talk to the publisher and seek guidance.

edited yesterday

answered yesterday

cag51

9,30142244

Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– aeismail♦
2 hours ago

add a comment |

up vote
100
down vote

With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?

First, I would be concerned about your legal exposure. You would be effectively admitting piracy.

Thus, the "appropriate" thing to do is to buy the books through legal channels.

If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

Not a professor, but I have taught and written a book with thousands of copies sold. I'm sure I am losing money due to piracy, but I have never received a payment like you describe.

Realistically, if I were to receive cash anonymously, I would probably chuckle and pocket the cash, or maybe set it aside for a few years to see if anything came of it.

If I received money from a known student, I would be very concerned about the appearance of impropriety, and would not accept it. I would also be concerned about whether I should report the piracy, though I probably wouldn't.

If this "caught on" and I was receiving a non-negligible amount of money from many pirates, I would have to talk to the publisher and seek guidance.

edited yesterday

answered yesterday

cag51

9,30142244

Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– aeismail♦
2 hours ago

add a comment |

up vote
100
down vote

With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?

First, I would be concerned about your legal exposure. You would be effectively admitting piracy.

Thus, the "appropriate" thing to do is to buy the books through legal channels.

If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

Not a professor, but I have taught and written a book with thousands of copies sold. I'm sure I am losing money due to piracy, but I have never received a payment like you describe.

Realistically, if I were to receive cash anonymously, I would probably chuckle and pocket the cash, or maybe set it aside for a few years to see if anything came of it.

If I received money from a known student, I would be very concerned about the appearance of impropriety, and would not accept it. I would also be concerned about whether I should report the piracy, though I probably wouldn't.

If this "caught on" and I was receiving a non-negligible amount of money from many pirates, I would have to talk to the publisher and seek guidance.

edited yesterday

answered yesterday

cag51

9,30142244

With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?

First, I would be concerned about your legal exposure. You would be effectively admitting piracy.

Thus, the "appropriate" thing to do is to buy the books through legal channels.

If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

Not a professor, but I have taught and written a book with thousands of copies sold. I'm sure I am losing money due to piracy, but I have never received a payment like you describe.

Realistically, if I were to receive cash anonymously, I would probably chuckle and pocket the cash, or maybe set it aside for a few years to see if anything came of it.

If I received money from a known student, I would be very concerned about the appearance of impropriety, and would not accept it. I would also be concerned about whether I should report the piracy, though I probably wouldn't.

If this "caught on" and I was receiving a non-negligible amount of money from many pirates, I would have to talk to the publisher and seek guidance.

edited yesterday

answered yesterday

cag51

9,30142244

edited yesterday

answered yesterday

cag51

9,30142244

answered yesterday

cag51

9,30142244

answered yesterday

cag51

9,30142244

Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– aeismail♦
2 hours ago

add a comment |

Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– aeismail♦
2 hours ago

Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– aeismail♦
2 hours ago

add a comment |

up vote
44
down vote

With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?

If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

Should I send professors 10 dollars for illegally downloading their books?

Thanks for the interesting question!

edited 16 hours ago

answered yesterday

Dan Romik

80k20175269

21

The legal ramifications of sending money to someone to make amends for piracy is not something to be taken lightly. It is not only about the taxes the reciever has to pay, but now the reciever is selling bootleg copies of his work, the publisher might intervene quite harshly.
– Bent
yesterday

9

What disturbs me about the whole idea is the following: the legal aspect is the legal aspect and there are various views on that (I support the Open Access perspective; the EU has made a great effort to enforce it) - however, the OP tries to recruit the prof into their view of how legitimate author reimbursement should look like. This is what really disturbs me about this proposal; not every accepter of the money would realise that they play along the arbitrarily made-up game rules of OP.
– Captain Emacs
yesterday

6

@Bent if someone sent me $10 without asking me, I wouldn’t consider myself to have “stolen bootleg copies of my work”, nor do I think that I would be legally complicit in an illegal sale in any way (think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10). It should be very clear, what OP decides to do is %100 on him.
– Dan Romik
yesterday

2

"think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10". You've got it wrong. A person can not be made a criminal by someone sending him money. But you force the person to do something. If the person decides to keep the money it is income, the reason in this case is compensation for a bootleg copy. Now he is in conflict with the contract with the publisher. Return the money? But to whom? I assume the money is send without return address. The only option left is to report it to the police. cont
– Bent
yesterday

3

cont.. if a bank in error puts money into your account you are required by law to report it to the bank. You cannot just leave the money, or worse spend it, even if it is not your fault. In this case you either know the money is for a bootleg copy of a book or, in fact, even worse you do not know what it is for. The law require you to assume the worst in such a case. You are not a criminal for someone sending you money, but you are for not making every effort to make sure you are not doing something wrong.
– Bent
yesterday

|
show 7 more comments

up vote
44
down vote

With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?

If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

Should I send professors 10 dollars for illegally downloading their books?

Thanks for the interesting question!

edited 16 hours ago

answered yesterday

Dan Romik

80k20175269

21

The legal ramifications of sending money to someone to make amends for piracy is not something to be taken lightly. It is not only about the taxes the reciever has to pay, but now the reciever is selling bootleg copies of his work, the publisher might intervene quite harshly.
– Bent
yesterday

9

What disturbs me about the whole idea is the following: the legal aspect is the legal aspect and there are various views on that (I support the Open Access perspective; the EU has made a great effort to enforce it) - however, the OP tries to recruit the prof into their view of how legitimate author reimbursement should look like. This is what really disturbs me about this proposal; not every accepter of the money would realise that they play along the arbitrarily made-up game rules of OP.
– Captain Emacs
yesterday

6

@Bent if someone sent me $10 without asking me, I wouldn’t consider myself to have “stolen bootleg copies of my work”, nor do I think that I would be legally complicit in an illegal sale in any way (think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10). It should be very clear, what OP decides to do is %100 on him.
– Dan Romik
yesterday

2

"think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10". You've got it wrong. A person can not be made a criminal by someone sending him money. But you force the person to do something. If the person decides to keep the money it is income, the reason in this case is compensation for a bootleg copy. Now he is in conflict with the contract with the publisher. Return the money? But to whom? I assume the money is send without return address. The only option left is to report it to the police. cont
– Bent
yesterday

3

cont.. if a bank in error puts money into your account you are required by law to report it to the bank. You cannot just leave the money, or worse spend it, even if it is not your fault. In this case you either know the money is for a bootleg copy of a book or, in fact, even worse you do not know what it is for. The law require you to assume the worst in such a case. You are not a criminal for someone sending you money, but you are for not making every effort to make sure you are not doing something wrong.
– Bent
yesterday

|
show 7 more comments

up vote
44
down vote

With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?

If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

Should I send professors 10 dollars for illegally downloading their books?

Thanks for the interesting question!

edited 16 hours ago

answered yesterday

Dan Romik

80k20175269

With that in mind, would it be appropiate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?

If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

Should I send professors 10 dollars for illegally downloading their books?

Thanks for the interesting question!

edited 16 hours ago

answered yesterday

Dan Romik

80k20175269

edited 16 hours ago

answered yesterday

Dan Romik

80k20175269

answered yesterday

Dan Romik

80k20175269

answered yesterday

Dan Romik

80k20175269

21

The legal ramifications of sending money to someone to make amends for piracy is not something to be taken lightly. It is not only about the taxes the reciever has to pay, but now the reciever is selling bootleg copies of his work, the publisher might intervene quite harshly.
– Bent
yesterday

9

What disturbs me about the whole idea is the following: the legal aspect is the legal aspect and there are various views on that (I support the Open Access perspective; the EU has made a great effort to enforce it) - however, the OP tries to recruit the prof into their view of how legitimate author reimbursement should look like. This is what really disturbs me about this proposal; not every accepter of the money would realise that they play along the arbitrarily made-up game rules of OP.
– Captain Emacs
yesterday

6

@Bent if someone sent me $10 without asking me, I wouldn’t consider myself to have “stolen bootleg copies of my work”, nor do I think that I would be legally complicit in an illegal sale in any way (think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10). It should be very clear, what OP decides to do is %100 on him.
– Dan Romik
yesterday

2

"think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10". You've got it wrong. A person can not be made a criminal by someone sending him money. But you force the person to do something. If the person decides to keep the money it is income, the reason in this case is compensation for a bootleg copy. Now he is in conflict with the contract with the publisher. Return the money? But to whom? I assume the money is send without return address. The only option left is to report it to the police. cont
– Bent
yesterday

3

cont.. if a bank in error puts money into your account you are required by law to report it to the bank. You cannot just leave the money, or worse spend it, even if it is not your fault. In this case you either know the money is for a bootleg copy of a book or, in fact, even worse you do not know what it is for. The law require you to assume the worst in such a case. You are not a criminal for someone sending you money, but you are for not making every effort to make sure you are not doing something wrong.
– Bent
yesterday

|
show 7 more comments

21

The legal ramifications of sending money to someone to make amends for piracy is not something to be taken lightly. It is not only about the taxes the reciever has to pay, but now the reciever is selling bootleg copies of his work, the publisher might intervene quite harshly.
– Bent
yesterday

9

What disturbs me about the whole idea is the following: the legal aspect is the legal aspect and there are various views on that (I support the Open Access perspective; the EU has made a great effort to enforce it) - however, the OP tries to recruit the prof into their view of how legitimate author reimbursement should look like. This is what really disturbs me about this proposal; not every accepter of the money would realise that they play along the arbitrarily made-up game rules of OP.
– Captain Emacs
yesterday

6

@Bent if someone sent me $10 without asking me, I wouldn’t consider myself to have “stolen bootleg copies of my work”, nor do I think that I would be legally complicit in an illegal sale in any way (think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10). It should be very clear, what OP decides to do is %100 on him.
– Dan Romik
yesterday

2

"think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10". You've got it wrong. A person can not be made a criminal by someone sending him money. But you force the person to do something. If the person decides to keep the money it is income, the reason in this case is compensation for a bootleg copy. Now he is in conflict with the contract with the publisher. Return the money? But to whom? I assume the money is send without return address. The only option left is to report it to the police. cont
– Bent
yesterday

3

cont.. if a bank in error puts money into your account you are required by law to report it to the bank. You cannot just leave the money, or worse spend it, even if it is not your fault. In this case you either know the money is for a bootleg copy of a book or, in fact, even worse you do not know what it is for. The law require you to assume the worst in such a case. You are not a criminal for someone sending you money, but you are for not making every effort to make sure you are not doing something wrong.
– Bent
yesterday

The legal ramifications of sending money to someone to make amends for piracy is not something to be taken lightly. It is not only about the taxes the reciever has to pay, but now the reciever is selling bootleg copies of his work, the publisher might intervene quite harshly.
– Bent
yesterday

What disturbs me about the whole idea is the following: the legal aspect is the legal aspect and there are various views on that (I support the Open Access perspective; the EU has made a great effort to enforce it) - however, the OP tries to recruit the prof into their view of how legitimate author reimbursement should look like. This is what really disturbs me about this proposal; not every accepter of the money would realise that they play along the arbitrarily made-up game rules of OP.
– Captain Emacs
yesterday

@Bent if someone sent me $10 without asking me, I wouldn’t consider myself to have “stolen bootleg copies of my work”, nor do I think that I would be legally complicit in an illegal sale in any way (think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10). It should be very clear, what OP decides to do is %100 on him.
– Dan Romik
yesterday

"think about it like this: it would be very problematic if the law had such a loophole that enabled you to make someone a criminal just by sending them $10". You've got it wrong. A person can not be made a criminal by someone sending him money. But you force the person to do something. If the person decides to keep the money it is income, the reason in this case is compensation for a bootleg copy. Now he is in conflict with the contract with the publisher. Return the money? But to whom? I assume the money is send without return address. The only option left is to report it to the police. cont
– Bent
yesterday

cont.. if a bank in error puts money into your account you are required by law to report it to the bank. You cannot just leave the money, or worse spend it, even if it is not your fault. In this case you either know the money is for a bootleg copy of a book or, in fact, even worse you do not know what it is for. The law require you to assume the worst in such a case. You are not a criminal for someone sending you money, but you are for not making every effort to make sure you are not doing something wrong.
– Bent
yesterday

|
show 7 more comments

up vote
22
down vote

After thinking about it a bit more, I wouldn't do this. Here's a few reasons:

The professor will have to waste their time trying to decide whether or not to accept your offer, and surely they have better things to do.

They may have to declare such sources of income if they become large enough, so you're creating issues for them w/o offering much help.

You need to hide your identity otherwise it will be obvious you've breached anti-piracy laws.

The publisher may or may not have contributed considerably to the book (e.g. editing, advertising) and cutting them out of the picture goes "too far" in the direction of rewarding the content creator and denying rewards to the content distributor.

In short then, I wouldn't do this.

edited yesterday

answered yesterday

goblin

58828

6

This is a well-reasoned answer until the last sentence -- can you expand on why you "wouldn't feel too guilty"? Certainly if everyone pirated their textbooks, we wouldn't have textbooks anymore; therefore, OP is expecting everyone else to pay while he gets his for free -- guilt seems altogether appropriate to me, whether we call it "stealing" or something else.
– cag51
yesterday

4

@cag51, my position is roughly: if an ebook is on sale for $70 and it has $90 of value for you, buy it. If it has $50 of value for you, then obviously you're not going to buy it. So you either get some value from this ebook (by "stealing" it) or you don't (by not "stealing" it.) Therefore you should "steal" it, since society ends up $50 better off overall if and only if you you "steal" it. And if, upon reading it you find that the total value to you has exceeded $70, then you should buy it.
– goblin
yesterday

13

@goblin that's a pretty convenient way to self-define ethics..
– Patrick Trentin
yesterday

2

@PatrickTrentin Well, if you are happy living by other people's ethics that's your right.
– Nobody
20 hours ago

2

@StackTracer - not sure I understand, you want to abolish textbooks?
– cag51
13 hours ago

|
show 8 more comments

up vote
22
down vote

After thinking about it a bit more, I wouldn't do this. Here's a few reasons:

The professor will have to waste their time trying to decide whether or not to accept your offer, and surely they have better things to do.

They may have to declare such sources of income if they become large enough, so you're creating issues for them w/o offering much help.

You need to hide your identity otherwise it will be obvious you've breached anti-piracy laws.

The publisher may or may not have contributed considerably to the book (e.g. editing, advertising) and cutting them out of the picture goes "too far" in the direction of rewarding the content creator and denying rewards to the content distributor.

In short then, I wouldn't do this.

edited yesterday

answered yesterday

goblin

58828

6

This is a well-reasoned answer until the last sentence -- can you expand on why you "wouldn't feel too guilty"? Certainly if everyone pirated their textbooks, we wouldn't have textbooks anymore; therefore, OP is expecting everyone else to pay while he gets his for free -- guilt seems altogether appropriate to me, whether we call it "stealing" or something else.
– cag51
yesterday

4

@cag51, my position is roughly: if an ebook is on sale for $70 and it has $90 of value for you, buy it. If it has $50 of value for you, then obviously you're not going to buy it. So you either get some value from this ebook (by "stealing" it) or you don't (by not "stealing" it.) Therefore you should "steal" it, since society ends up $50 better off overall if and only if you you "steal" it. And if, upon reading it you find that the total value to you has exceeded $70, then you should buy it.
– goblin
yesterday

13

@goblin that's a pretty convenient way to self-define ethics..
– Patrick Trentin
yesterday

2

@PatrickTrentin Well, if you are happy living by other people's ethics that's your right.
– Nobody
20 hours ago

2

@StackTracer - not sure I understand, you want to abolish textbooks?
– cag51
13 hours ago

|
show 8 more comments

up vote
22
down vote

After thinking about it a bit more, I wouldn't do this. Here's a few reasons:

The professor will have to waste their time trying to decide whether or not to accept your offer, and surely they have better things to do.

They may have to declare such sources of income if they become large enough, so you're creating issues for them w/o offering much help.

You need to hide your identity otherwise it will be obvious you've breached anti-piracy laws.

The publisher may or may not have contributed considerably to the book (e.g. editing, advertising) and cutting them out of the picture goes "too far" in the direction of rewarding the content creator and denying rewards to the content distributor.

In short then, I wouldn't do this.

edited yesterday

answered yesterday

goblin

58828

After thinking about it a bit more, I wouldn't do this. Here's a few reasons:

The professor will have to waste their time trying to decide whether or not to accept your offer, and surely they have better things to do.

They may have to declare such sources of income if they become large enough, so you're creating issues for them w/o offering much help.

You need to hide your identity otherwise it will be obvious you've breached anti-piracy laws.

The publisher may or may not have contributed considerably to the book (e.g. editing, advertising) and cutting them out of the picture goes "too far" in the direction of rewarding the content creator and denying rewards to the content distributor.

In short then, I wouldn't do this.

edited yesterday

answered yesterday

goblin

58828

edited yesterday

answered yesterday

goblin

58828

answered yesterday

goblin

58828

answered yesterday

goblin

58828

6

This is a well-reasoned answer until the last sentence -- can you expand on why you "wouldn't feel too guilty"? Certainly if everyone pirated their textbooks, we wouldn't have textbooks anymore; therefore, OP is expecting everyone else to pay while he gets his for free -- guilt seems altogether appropriate to me, whether we call it "stealing" or something else.
– cag51
yesterday

4

@cag51, my position is roughly: if an ebook is on sale for $70 and it has $90 of value for you, buy it. If it has $50 of value for you, then obviously you're not going to buy it. So you either get some value from this ebook (by "stealing" it) or you don't (by not "stealing" it.) Therefore you should "steal" it, since society ends up $50 better off overall if and only if you you "steal" it. And if, upon reading it you find that the total value to you has exceeded $70, then you should buy it.
– goblin
yesterday

13

@goblin that's a pretty convenient way to self-define ethics..
– Patrick Trentin
yesterday

2

@PatrickTrentin Well, if you are happy living by other people's ethics that's your right.
– Nobody
20 hours ago

2

@StackTracer - not sure I understand, you want to abolish textbooks?
– cag51
13 hours ago

|
show 8 more comments

6

This is a well-reasoned answer until the last sentence -- can you expand on why you "wouldn't feel too guilty"? Certainly if everyone pirated their textbooks, we wouldn't have textbooks anymore; therefore, OP is expecting everyone else to pay while he gets his for free -- guilt seems altogether appropriate to me, whether we call it "stealing" or something else.
– cag51
yesterday

4

@cag51, my position is roughly: if an ebook is on sale for $70 and it has $90 of value for you, buy it. If it has $50 of value for you, then obviously you're not going to buy it. So you either get some value from this ebook (by "stealing" it) or you don't (by not "stealing" it.) Therefore you should "steal" it, since society ends up $50 better off overall if and only if you you "steal" it. And if, upon reading it you find that the total value to you has exceeded $70, then you should buy it.
– goblin
yesterday

13

@goblin that's a pretty convenient way to self-define ethics..
– Patrick Trentin
yesterday

2

@PatrickTrentin Well, if you are happy living by other people's ethics that's your right.
– Nobody
20 hours ago

2

@StackTracer - not sure I understand, you want to abolish textbooks?
– cag51
13 hours ago

This is a well-reasoned answer until the last sentence -- can you expand on why you "wouldn't feel too guilty"? Certainly if everyone pirated their textbooks, we wouldn't have textbooks anymore; therefore, OP is expecting everyone else to pay while he gets his for free -- guilt seems altogether appropriate to me, whether we call it "stealing" or something else.
– cag51
yesterday

@cag51, my position is roughly: if an ebook is on sale for $70 and it has $90 of value for you, buy it. If it has $50 of value for you, then obviously you're not going to buy it. So you either get some value from this ebook (by "stealing" it) or you don't (by not "stealing" it.) Therefore you should "steal" it, since society ends up $50 better off overall if and only if you you "steal" it. And if, upon reading it you find that the total value to you has exceeded $70, then you should buy it.
– goblin
yesterday

@goblin that's a pretty convenient way to self-define ethics..
– Patrick Trentin
yesterday

@PatrickTrentin Well, if you are happy living by other people's ethics that's your right.
– Nobody
20 hours ago

@StackTracer - not sure I understand, you want to abolish textbooks?
– cag51
13 hours ago

|
show 8 more comments

up vote
20
down vote

Actually, what you should do, if you want to behave ethically, is purchase legal copies of the books you've stolen.

answered yesterday

Buffy

29.6k692156

12

@Buffy: I voted your answer down because it fits the too-common antipattern of answering an ethical question of the form "how can I do this better?" by "you should not do it at all". There are some cases where this is a good answer, but this isn't one of them, and in either case the answer is comment-length and devoid of justification. I am used to much better from you.
– darij grinberg
yesterday

21

I agree with this answer except for the word “stolen”. Digital piracy is ethically problematic and in many (possibly most) circumstances unethical, but it is not identical to, and should not be conflated with, theft. I downvoted the answer because of this inaccuracy, but will undo my downvote if you edit the answer to correct this issue.
– Dan Romik
yesterday

12

Downvoted because you don't offer an argument, merely an assertion. It's not self-evident that downloading books illegally is immoral.
– Ben Crowell
yesterday

I moved longer discussions in comments to chat and just left the hooks, i.e., the direct criticisms of the answer. Please continue discussing in chat. Also, please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
10 hours ago

2

Upvoted because this is the answer of what to do if you find yourself in possession of a pirated book. 1. You inspect it and you don't need it, so you delete it. 2. You decide you like it so you buy a legal copy. Sounds daft, but a friend once gave me pirated copies of his favourite books. I read a few paragraphs of each, then bought the ones I liked, and deleted the others.
– RedSonja
9 hours ago

add a comment |

up vote
20
down vote

Actually, what you should do, if you want to behave ethically, is purchase legal copies of the books you've stolen.

answered yesterday

Buffy

29.6k692156

12

@Buffy: I voted your answer down because it fits the too-common antipattern of answering an ethical question of the form "how can I do this better?" by "you should not do it at all". There are some cases where this is a good answer, but this isn't one of them, and in either case the answer is comment-length and devoid of justification. I am used to much better from you.
– darij grinberg
yesterday

21

I agree with this answer except for the word “stolen”. Digital piracy is ethically problematic and in many (possibly most) circumstances unethical, but it is not identical to, and should not be conflated with, theft. I downvoted the answer because of this inaccuracy, but will undo my downvote if you edit the answer to correct this issue.
– Dan Romik
yesterday

12

Downvoted because you don't offer an argument, merely an assertion. It's not self-evident that downloading books illegally is immoral.
– Ben Crowell
yesterday

I moved longer discussions in comments to chat and just left the hooks, i.e., the direct criticisms of the answer. Please continue discussing in chat. Also, please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
10 hours ago

2

Upvoted because this is the answer of what to do if you find yourself in possession of a pirated book. 1. You inspect it and you don't need it, so you delete it. 2. You decide you like it so you buy a legal copy. Sounds daft, but a friend once gave me pirated copies of his favourite books. I read a few paragraphs of each, then bought the ones I liked, and deleted the others.
– RedSonja
9 hours ago

add a comment |

up vote
20
down vote

Actually, what you should do, if you want to behave ethically, is purchase legal copies of the books you've stolen.

answered yesterday

Buffy

29.6k692156

Actually, what you should do, if you want to behave ethically, is purchase legal copies of the books you've stolen.

answered yesterday

Buffy

29.6k692156

answered yesterday

Buffy

29.6k692156

answered yesterday

Buffy

29.6k692156

answered yesterday

Buffy

29.6k692156

12

@Buffy: I voted your answer down because it fits the too-common antipattern of answering an ethical question of the form "how can I do this better?" by "you should not do it at all". There are some cases where this is a good answer, but this isn't one of them, and in either case the answer is comment-length and devoid of justification. I am used to much better from you.
– darij grinberg
yesterday

21

I agree with this answer except for the word “stolen”. Digital piracy is ethically problematic and in many (possibly most) circumstances unethical, but it is not identical to, and should not be conflated with, theft. I downvoted the answer because of this inaccuracy, but will undo my downvote if you edit the answer to correct this issue.
– Dan Romik
yesterday

12

Downvoted because you don't offer an argument, merely an assertion. It's not self-evident that downloading books illegally is immoral.
– Ben Crowell
yesterday

I moved longer discussions in comments to chat and just left the hooks, i.e., the direct criticisms of the answer. Please continue discussing in chat. Also, please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
10 hours ago

2

Upvoted because this is the answer of what to do if you find yourself in possession of a pirated book. 1. You inspect it and you don't need it, so you delete it. 2. You decide you like it so you buy a legal copy. Sounds daft, but a friend once gave me pirated copies of his favourite books. I read a few paragraphs of each, then bought the ones I liked, and deleted the others.
– RedSonja
9 hours ago

add a comment |

12

@Buffy: I voted your answer down because it fits the too-common antipattern of answering an ethical question of the form "how can I do this better?" by "you should not do it at all". There are some cases where this is a good answer, but this isn't one of them, and in either case the answer is comment-length and devoid of justification. I am used to much better from you.
– darij grinberg
yesterday

21

I agree with this answer except for the word “stolen”. Digital piracy is ethically problematic and in many (possibly most) circumstances unethical, but it is not identical to, and should not be conflated with, theft. I downvoted the answer because of this inaccuracy, but will undo my downvote if you edit the answer to correct this issue.
– Dan Romik
yesterday

12

Downvoted because you don't offer an argument, merely an assertion. It's not self-evident that downloading books illegally is immoral.
– Ben Crowell
yesterday

I moved longer discussions in comments to chat and just left the hooks, i.e., the direct criticisms of the answer. Please continue discussing in chat. Also, please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
10 hours ago

2

Upvoted because this is the answer of what to do if you find yourself in possession of a pirated book. 1. You inspect it and you don't need it, so you delete it. 2. You decide you like it so you buy a legal copy. Sounds daft, but a friend once gave me pirated copies of his favourite books. I read a few paragraphs of each, then bought the ones I liked, and deleted the others.
– RedSonja
9 hours ago

@Buffy: I voted your answer down because it fits the too-common antipattern of answering an ethical question of the form "how can I do this better?" by "you should not do it at all". There are some cases where this is a good answer, but this isn't one of them, and in either case the answer is comment-length and devoid of justification. I am used to much better from you.
– darij grinberg
yesterday

I agree with this answer except for the word “stolen”. Digital piracy is ethically problematic and in many (possibly most) circumstances unethical, but it is not identical to, and should not be conflated with, theft. I downvoted the answer because of this inaccuracy, but will undo my downvote if you edit the answer to correct this issue.
– Dan Romik
yesterday

Downvoted because you don't offer an argument, merely an assertion. It's not self-evident that downloading books illegally is immoral.
– Ben Crowell
yesterday

I moved longer discussions in comments to chat and just left the hooks, i.e., the direct criticisms of the answer. Please continue discussing in chat. Also, please read this FAQ before posting another comment.
– Wrzlprmft♦
10 hours ago

Upvoted because this is the answer of what to do if you find yourself in possession of a pirated book. 1. You inspect it and you don't need it, so you delete it. 2. You decide you like it so you buy a legal copy. Sounds daft, but a friend once gave me pirated copies of his favourite books. I read a few paragraphs of each, then bought the ones I liked, and deleted the others.
– RedSonja
9 hours ago

add a comment |

up vote
17
down vote

If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

My likely reaction is to notify the publisher at once, and if it comes to a lawsuit, I'd testify against you.

answered yesterday

Allure

23.4k1371121

1

This answers the question better than some higher-voted answers. I'm curious whether your described feelings are just about piracy in general, or also something you would feel as a reaction to somebody gifting you 10$ because they value your work but with the fact that they pirated it? I mean, is your answer saying that you would focus on the piracy part, even if it was a given fact already that your book was pirated X times?
– lucidbrot
yesterday

2

I expect everything you wear and eat is ethically sourced, yes?
– Ivana
7 hours ago

1

@Ivana Why would you expect that? There's a big difference between compromising for $10 that you can obviously source, and putting all the time and effort into sourcing all ethical food and clothing. They never said they could never compromise justice and fairness, just not for $10.
– JMac
3 hours ago

2

OP is not cheating anybody out of anything. You still have all of your work after someone makes a digital copy of it. "Justice and fairness"? Not at all. However - this is a good answer for OP to read, so that s/he realizes it's dangerous to send those 10 dollars.
– einpoklum
1 hour ago

add a comment |

up vote
17
down vote

If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

My likely reaction is to notify the publisher at once, and if it comes to a lawsuit, I'd testify against you.

answered yesterday

Allure

23.4k1371121

1

This answers the question better than some higher-voted answers. I'm curious whether your described feelings are just about piracy in general, or also something you would feel as a reaction to somebody gifting you 10$ because they value your work but with the fact that they pirated it? I mean, is your answer saying that you would focus on the piracy part, even if it was a given fact already that your book was pirated X times?
– lucidbrot
yesterday

2

I expect everything you wear and eat is ethically sourced, yes?
– Ivana
7 hours ago

1

@Ivana Why would you expect that? There's a big difference between compromising for $10 that you can obviously source, and putting all the time and effort into sourcing all ethical food and clothing. They never said they could never compromise justice and fairness, just not for $10.
– JMac
3 hours ago

2

OP is not cheating anybody out of anything. You still have all of your work after someone makes a digital copy of it. "Justice and fairness"? Not at all. However - this is a good answer for OP to read, so that s/he realizes it's dangerous to send those 10 dollars.
– einpoklum
1 hour ago

add a comment |

up vote
17
down vote

If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

My likely reaction is to notify the publisher at once, and if it comes to a lawsuit, I'd testify against you.

answered yesterday

Allure

23.4k1371121

If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

My likely reaction is to notify the publisher at once, and if it comes to a lawsuit, I'd testify against you.

answered yesterday

Allure

23.4k1371121

answered yesterday

Allure

23.4k1371121

answered yesterday

Allure

23.4k1371121

answered yesterday

Allure

23.4k1371121

1

This answers the question better than some higher-voted answers. I'm curious whether your described feelings are just about piracy in general, or also something you would feel as a reaction to somebody gifting you 10$ because they value your work but with the fact that they pirated it? I mean, is your answer saying that you would focus on the piracy part, even if it was a given fact already that your book was pirated X times?
– lucidbrot
yesterday

2

I expect everything you wear and eat is ethically sourced, yes?
– Ivana
7 hours ago

1

@Ivana Why would you expect that? There's a big difference between compromising for $10 that you can obviously source, and putting all the time and effort into sourcing all ethical food and clothing. They never said they could never compromise justice and fairness, just not for $10.
– JMac
3 hours ago

2

OP is not cheating anybody out of anything. You still have all of your work after someone makes a digital copy of it. "Justice and fairness"? Not at all. However - this is a good answer for OP to read, so that s/he realizes it's dangerous to send those 10 dollars.
– einpoklum
1 hour ago

add a comment |

1

This answers the question better than some higher-voted answers. I'm curious whether your described feelings are just about piracy in general, or also something you would feel as a reaction to somebody gifting you 10$ because they value your work but with the fact that they pirated it? I mean, is your answer saying that you would focus on the piracy part, even if it was a given fact already that your book was pirated X times?
– lucidbrot
yesterday

2

I expect everything you wear and eat is ethically sourced, yes?
– Ivana
7 hours ago

1

@Ivana Why would you expect that? There's a big difference between compromising for $10 that you can obviously source, and putting all the time and effort into sourcing all ethical food and clothing. They never said they could never compromise justice and fairness, just not for $10.
– JMac
3 hours ago

2

OP is not cheating anybody out of anything. You still have all of your work after someone makes a digital copy of it. "Justice and fairness"? Not at all. However - this is a good answer for OP to read, so that s/he realizes it's dangerous to send those 10 dollars.
– einpoklum
1 hour ago

This answers the question better than some higher-voted answers. I'm curious whether your described feelings are just about piracy in general, or also something you would feel as a reaction to somebody gifting you 10$ because they value your work but with the fact that they pirated it? I mean, is your answer saying that you would focus on the piracy part, even if it was a given fact already that your book was pirated X times?
– lucidbrot
yesterday

I expect everything you wear and eat is ethically sourced, yes?
– Ivana
7 hours ago

@Ivana Why would you expect that? There's a big difference between compromising for $10 that you can obviously source, and putting all the time and effort into sourcing all ethical food and clothing. They never said they could never compromise justice and fairness, just not for $10.
– JMac
3 hours ago

OP is not cheating anybody out of anything. You still have all of your work after someone makes a digital copy of it. "Justice and fairness"? Not at all. However - this is a good answer for OP to read, so that s/he realizes it's dangerous to send those 10 dollars.
– einpoklum
1 hour ago

add a comment |

up vote
8
down vote

edited 16 hours ago

answered yesterday

Jeffrey J Weimer

1,213110

2

I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.
– Buffy
yesterday

1

While the relative cost may be low, it is still a substantial out of pocket expense. Loans and scholarships do not pay for the textbooks. As I stand now on the other side, I am pained to see students struggle to have to buy books that are, as you say, well beyond the costs that should be reasonable. I can buy a smart phone today at nearly the same cost as I paid for my first programmable TI calculator back then. Why can't I buy a textbook today for the same cost as back then? Is the paper today made of gold or platinum?
– Jeffrey J Weimer
yesterday

2

See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law. There is no such law for paper.
– Buffy
yesterday

1

Yes. Moore's law. But then, one might expect the same forces in play to decrease cost across all industries. Alternatively, we might agree that paper costs increase, but realize the material's costs in a book are but a fraction of the net costs anyway. I am not in favor of using tax revenues for social rebalancing here. I'd rather see action toward recognition of publishers as monopolies. I see it from the other side as well with the explosion of costs for journal subscriptions for our libraries. We digress.
– Jeffrey J Weimer
yesterday

1

Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.
– Buffy
yesterday

|
show 4 more comments

up vote
8
down vote

edited 16 hours ago

answered yesterday

Jeffrey J Weimer

1,213110

2

I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.
– Buffy
yesterday

1

While the relative cost may be low, it is still a substantial out of pocket expense. Loans and scholarships do not pay for the textbooks. As I stand now on the other side, I am pained to see students struggle to have to buy books that are, as you say, well beyond the costs that should be reasonable. I can buy a smart phone today at nearly the same cost as I paid for my first programmable TI calculator back then. Why can't I buy a textbook today for the same cost as back then? Is the paper today made of gold or platinum?
– Jeffrey J Weimer
yesterday

2

See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law. There is no such law for paper.
– Buffy
yesterday

1

Yes. Moore's law. But then, one might expect the same forces in play to decrease cost across all industries. Alternatively, we might agree that paper costs increase, but realize the material's costs in a book are but a fraction of the net costs anyway. I am not in favor of using tax revenues for social rebalancing here. I'd rather see action toward recognition of publishers as monopolies. I see it from the other side as well with the explosion of costs for journal subscriptions for our libraries. We digress.
– Jeffrey J Weimer
yesterday

1

Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.
– Buffy
yesterday

|
show 4 more comments

up vote
8
down vote

edited 16 hours ago

answered yesterday

Jeffrey J Weimer

1,213110

edited 16 hours ago

answered yesterday

Jeffrey J Weimer

1,213110

edited 16 hours ago

answered yesterday

Jeffrey J Weimer

1,213110

answered yesterday

Jeffrey J Weimer

1,213110

answered yesterday

Jeffrey J Weimer

1,213110

2

I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.
– Buffy
yesterday

1

While the relative cost may be low, it is still a substantial out of pocket expense. Loans and scholarships do not pay for the textbooks. As I stand now on the other side, I am pained to see students struggle to have to buy books that are, as you say, well beyond the costs that should be reasonable. I can buy a smart phone today at nearly the same cost as I paid for my first programmable TI calculator back then. Why can't I buy a textbook today for the same cost as back then? Is the paper today made of gold or platinum?
– Jeffrey J Weimer
yesterday

2

See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law. There is no such law for paper.
– Buffy
yesterday

1

Yes. Moore's law. But then, one might expect the same forces in play to decrease cost across all industries. Alternatively, we might agree that paper costs increase, but realize the material's costs in a book are but a fraction of the net costs anyway. I am not in favor of using tax revenues for social rebalancing here. I'd rather see action toward recognition of publishers as monopolies. I see it from the other side as well with the explosion of costs for journal subscriptions for our libraries. We digress.
– Jeffrey J Weimer
yesterday

1

Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.
– Buffy
yesterday

|
show 4 more comments

2

I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.
– Buffy
yesterday

1

While the relative cost may be low, it is still a substantial out of pocket expense. Loans and scholarships do not pay for the textbooks. As I stand now on the other side, I am pained to see students struggle to have to buy books that are, as you say, well beyond the costs that should be reasonable. I can buy a smart phone today at nearly the same cost as I paid for my first programmable TI calculator back then. Why can't I buy a textbook today for the same cost as back then? Is the paper today made of gold or platinum?
– Jeffrey J Weimer
yesterday

2

See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law. There is no such law for paper.
– Buffy
yesterday

1

Yes. Moore's law. But then, one might expect the same forces in play to decrease cost across all industries. Alternatively, we might agree that paper costs increase, but realize the material's costs in a book are but a fraction of the net costs anyway. I am not in favor of using tax revenues for social rebalancing here. I'd rather see action toward recognition of publishers as monopolies. I see it from the other side as well with the explosion of costs for journal subscriptions for our libraries. We digress.
– Jeffrey J Weimer
yesterday

1

Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.
– Buffy
yesterday

I just read that textbooks account for about 1% of the cost of education. A Calculus book (e.g. Stewart) now costs about 10 times what mine did in the early 1960s. But so does everything else. Food, housing, transportation, etc. The kindle edition of Stewart is only about 5-6 times what my hardcover was back then. I remember spending about $100 for most of a year's books and was horrified. Now is is said to be about $900. BTW, I still have that book, so it was a good investment.
– Buffy
yesterday

While the relative cost may be low, it is still a substantial out of pocket expense. Loans and scholarships do not pay for the textbooks. As I stand now on the other side, I am pained to see students struggle to have to buy books that are, as you say, well beyond the costs that should be reasonable. I can buy a smart phone today at nearly the same cost as I paid for my first programmable TI calculator back then. Why can't I buy a textbook today for the same cost as back then? Is the paper today made of gold or platinum?
– Jeffrey J Weimer
yesterday

See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law. There is no such law for paper.
– Buffy
yesterday

Yes. Moore's law. But then, one might expect the same forces in play to decrease cost across all industries. Alternatively, we might agree that paper costs increase, but realize the material's costs in a book are but a fraction of the net costs anyway. I am not in favor of using tax revenues for social rebalancing here. I'd rather see action toward recognition of publishers as monopolies. I see it from the other side as well with the explosion of costs for journal subscriptions for our libraries. We digress.
– Jeffrey J Weimer
yesterday

Note also that the price charged on successful books includes the amortized cost of creating, but not manufacturing, the ones that never sell. It is hard to predict a winner so publishers create a lot of failed books. If the price difference between ebooks and hardcovers is an indication, about half the cost is due to manufacturing. So publishers absorb those costs initially, but include it in price of books that sell. This is the "cost" of choice that we pay. One model is to charge back the development cost of a failed book to the author. A clear disincentive to write.
– Buffy
yesterday

|
show 4 more comments

up vote
4
down vote

You got a textbook illegally, without paying, but you are thinking about giving some money to the author. That puts you ahead of many people.

The implementation is not too good. If you send $10 to the author, that is income to the author, which needs to be declared if the author wants to stay legal himself.

I would recommend that you figure out how much the book was worth to you, and donate that amount of money to a charity.

answered yesterday

gnasher729

1,23058

1

Sorry, that is just a "feel good" act that doesn't address the problem in any way. Of course it is good to donate to charity in any case, but not just to make yourself feel better for a wrong you did.
– Buffy
yesterday

1

@Buffy: Nirvana fallacy. Illegally copying books and then donating money to a charity is not as good as paying for the books, but better than illegally copying books and not donating money to a charity.
– gnasher729
23 hours ago

4

Hmmm. So, I take an IPad from the Apple store without paying. Then donating half its value to my favorite charity makes it ok? Or taking a 50 cent candy bar from my corner store and then dropping a quarter into the Sunday collection plate. Fine? Is there a fallacy of "pretend ethical behavior", I wonder? FWIW, I think my Toyota was greatly overpriced and the dealer has some policies I don't like. Hmmm.
– Buffy
22 hours ago

3

@Buffy gnasher didn’t say it “makes it okay”, just that it’s better than OP’s proposed action. Sounds correct to me, and closer to being an answer to OP’s actual question than what you wrote (which is also mostly correct). And to answer your question, donating half the value of the stolen iPad to charity doesn’t make it okay, but it’s preferable to just stealing an iPad. How does this rhetorical question advance the discussion exactly? Everything you’ve written here only addresses the question “is it okay to illegally download books?” rather than OP’s actual (and different) question.
– Dan Romik
17 hours ago

6

@DanRomik, no, you are not correct. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.
– Buffy
17 hours ago

|
show 3 more comments

up vote
4
down vote

You got a textbook illegally, without paying, but you are thinking about giving some money to the author. That puts you ahead of many people.

The implementation is not too good. If you send $10 to the author, that is income to the author, which needs to be declared if the author wants to stay legal himself.

I would recommend that you figure out how much the book was worth to you, and donate that amount of money to a charity.

answered yesterday

gnasher729

1,23058

1

Sorry, that is just a "feel good" act that doesn't address the problem in any way. Of course it is good to donate to charity in any case, but not just to make yourself feel better for a wrong you did.
– Buffy
yesterday

1

@Buffy: Nirvana fallacy. Illegally copying books and then donating money to a charity is not as good as paying for the books, but better than illegally copying books and not donating money to a charity.
– gnasher729
23 hours ago

4

Hmmm. So, I take an IPad from the Apple store without paying. Then donating half its value to my favorite charity makes it ok? Or taking a 50 cent candy bar from my corner store and then dropping a quarter into the Sunday collection plate. Fine? Is there a fallacy of "pretend ethical behavior", I wonder? FWIW, I think my Toyota was greatly overpriced and the dealer has some policies I don't like. Hmmm.
– Buffy
22 hours ago

3

@Buffy gnasher didn’t say it “makes it okay”, just that it’s better than OP’s proposed action. Sounds correct to me, and closer to being an answer to OP’s actual question than what you wrote (which is also mostly correct). And to answer your question, donating half the value of the stolen iPad to charity doesn’t make it okay, but it’s preferable to just stealing an iPad. How does this rhetorical question advance the discussion exactly? Everything you’ve written here only addresses the question “is it okay to illegally download books?” rather than OP’s actual (and different) question.
– Dan Romik
17 hours ago

6

@DanRomik, no, you are not correct. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.
– Buffy
17 hours ago

|
show 3 more comments

up vote
4
down vote

You got a textbook illegally, without paying, but you are thinking about giving some money to the author. That puts you ahead of many people.

The implementation is not too good. If you send $10 to the author, that is income to the author, which needs to be declared if the author wants to stay legal himself.

I would recommend that you figure out how much the book was worth to you, and donate that amount of money to a charity.

answered yesterday

gnasher729

1,23058

You got a textbook illegally, without paying, but you are thinking about giving some money to the author. That puts you ahead of many people.

The implementation is not too good. If you send $10 to the author, that is income to the author, which needs to be declared if the author wants to stay legal himself.

I would recommend that you figure out how much the book was worth to you, and donate that amount of money to a charity.

answered yesterday

gnasher729

1,23058

answered yesterday

gnasher729

1,23058

answered yesterday

gnasher729

1,23058

answered yesterday

gnasher729

1,23058

1

Sorry, that is just a "feel good" act that doesn't address the problem in any way. Of course it is good to donate to charity in any case, but not just to make yourself feel better for a wrong you did.
– Buffy
yesterday

1

@Buffy: Nirvana fallacy. Illegally copying books and then donating money to a charity is not as good as paying for the books, but better than illegally copying books and not donating money to a charity.
– gnasher729
23 hours ago

4

Hmmm. So, I take an IPad from the Apple store without paying. Then donating half its value to my favorite charity makes it ok? Or taking a 50 cent candy bar from my corner store and then dropping a quarter into the Sunday collection plate. Fine? Is there a fallacy of "pretend ethical behavior", I wonder? FWIW, I think my Toyota was greatly overpriced and the dealer has some policies I don't like. Hmmm.
– Buffy
22 hours ago

3

@Buffy gnasher didn’t say it “makes it okay”, just that it’s better than OP’s proposed action. Sounds correct to me, and closer to being an answer to OP’s actual question than what you wrote (which is also mostly correct). And to answer your question, donating half the value of the stolen iPad to charity doesn’t make it okay, but it’s preferable to just stealing an iPad. How does this rhetorical question advance the discussion exactly? Everything you’ve written here only addresses the question “is it okay to illegally download books?” rather than OP’s actual (and different) question.
– Dan Romik
17 hours ago

6

@DanRomik, no, you are not correct. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.
– Buffy
17 hours ago

|
show 3 more comments

1

Sorry, that is just a "feel good" act that doesn't address the problem in any way. Of course it is good to donate to charity in any case, but not just to make yourself feel better for a wrong you did.
– Buffy
yesterday

1

@Buffy: Nirvana fallacy. Illegally copying books and then donating money to a charity is not as good as paying for the books, but better than illegally copying books and not donating money to a charity.
– gnasher729
23 hours ago

4

Hmmm. So, I take an IPad from the Apple store without paying. Then donating half its value to my favorite charity makes it ok? Or taking a 50 cent candy bar from my corner store and then dropping a quarter into the Sunday collection plate. Fine? Is there a fallacy of "pretend ethical behavior", I wonder? FWIW, I think my Toyota was greatly overpriced and the dealer has some policies I don't like. Hmmm.
– Buffy
22 hours ago

3

@Buffy gnasher didn’t say it “makes it okay”, just that it’s better than OP’s proposed action. Sounds correct to me, and closer to being an answer to OP’s actual question than what you wrote (which is also mostly correct). And to answer your question, donating half the value of the stolen iPad to charity doesn’t make it okay, but it’s preferable to just stealing an iPad. How does this rhetorical question advance the discussion exactly? Everything you’ve written here only addresses the question “is it okay to illegally download books?” rather than OP’s actual (and different) question.
– Dan Romik
17 hours ago

6

@DanRomik, no, you are not correct. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.
– Buffy
17 hours ago

Sorry, that is just a "feel good" act that doesn't address the problem in any way. Of course it is good to donate to charity in any case, but not just to make yourself feel better for a wrong you did.
– Buffy
yesterday

@Buffy: Nirvana fallacy. Illegally copying books and then donating money to a charity is not as good as paying for the books, but better than illegally copying books and not donating money to a charity.
– gnasher729
23 hours ago

Hmmm. So, I take an IPad from the Apple store without paying. Then donating half its value to my favorite charity makes it ok? Or taking a 50 cent candy bar from my corner store and then dropping a quarter into the Sunday collection plate. Fine? Is there a fallacy of "pretend ethical behavior", I wonder? FWIW, I think my Toyota was greatly overpriced and the dealer has some policies I don't like. Hmmm.
– Buffy
22 hours ago

@Buffy gnasher didn’t say it “makes it okay”, just that it’s better than OP’s proposed action. Sounds correct to me, and closer to being an answer to OP’s actual question than what you wrote (which is also mostly correct). And to answer your question, donating half the value of the stolen iPad to charity doesn’t make it okay, but it’s preferable to just stealing an iPad. How does this rhetorical question advance the discussion exactly? Everything you’ve written here only addresses the question “is it okay to illegally download books?” rather than OP’s actual (and different) question.
– Dan Romik
17 hours ago

@DanRomik, no, you are not correct. Everything I've written here is that it is unethical to unilaterally break a social contract, substituting your own terms, taking something that isn't yours and benefitting from it without compensating the producers (both authors and publishers) who have expended resources in its creation. It is an insult to creators. I haven't discussed legality. Others here seem to be trying, like the OP, to find a way to make it sort of ok, when there is an obvious, clean, and simple solution. Purchase a legal copy. Other "solutions" are just self delusion.
– Buffy
17 hours ago

|
show 3 more comments

up vote
3
down vote

It sounds like you would be sending the money anonymously, presumably cash in the mail, and that raises another point: receiving anonymous mail can make people nervous.

At the very least, for many people, it'll cause them more than $10 worth of anxiety. If your goal is to do something nice for the author, this seems likely to achieve the opposite.

answered 18 hours ago

Nate Eldredge

102k32291392

add a comment |

up vote
3
down vote

It sounds like you would be sending the money anonymously, presumably cash in the mail, and that raises another point: receiving anonymous mail can make people nervous.

At the very least, for many people, it'll cause them more than $10 worth of anxiety. If your goal is to do something nice for the author, this seems likely to achieve the opposite.

answered 18 hours ago

Nate Eldredge

102k32291392

add a comment |

up vote
3
down vote

It sounds like you would be sending the money anonymously, presumably cash in the mail, and that raises another point: receiving anonymous mail can make people nervous.

At the very least, for many people, it'll cause them more than $10 worth of anxiety. If your goal is to do something nice for the author, this seems likely to achieve the opposite.

answered 18 hours ago

Nate Eldredge

102k32291392

It sounds like you would be sending the money anonymously, presumably cash in the mail, and that raises another point: receiving anonymous mail can make people nervous.

At the very least, for many people, it'll cause them more than $10 worth of anxiety. If your goal is to do something nice for the author, this seems likely to achieve the opposite.

answered 18 hours ago

Nate Eldredge

102k32291392

answered 18 hours ago

Nate Eldredge

102k32291392

answered 18 hours ago

Nate Eldredge

102k32291392

answered 18 hours ago

Nate Eldredge

102k32291392

add a comment |

up vote
1
down vote

answered yesterday

jeffmcneill

1273

New contributor

11

The only answer the author can give without getting themselves on legal trouble is to tell you to abide to the law and legally purchase a copy of the book. Otherwise, they would be advising you to break the law stole from their partner (the publisher). In fact, jeffmcneill's reasonable answer seems a great scheme to fish for material to blackmail authors.
– Pere
yesterday

add a comment |

up vote
1
down vote

answered yesterday

jeffmcneill

1273

New contributor

11

The only answer the author can give without getting themselves on legal trouble is to tell you to abide to the law and legally purchase a copy of the book. Otherwise, they would be advising you to break the law stole from their partner (the publisher). In fact, jeffmcneill's reasonable answer seems a great scheme to fish for material to blackmail authors.
– Pere
yesterday

add a comment |

up vote
1
down vote

answered yesterday

jeffmcneill

1273

New contributor

answered yesterday

jeffmcneill

1273

New contributor

answered yesterday

jeffmcneill

1273

New contributor

answered yesterday

jeffmcneill

1273

answered yesterday

jeffmcneill

1273

New contributor

jeffmcneill is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

11

The only answer the author can give without getting themselves on legal trouble is to tell you to abide to the law and legally purchase a copy of the book. Otherwise, they would be advising you to break the law stole from their partner (the publisher). In fact, jeffmcneill's reasonable answer seems a great scheme to fish for material to blackmail authors.
– Pere
yesterday

add a comment |

11

The only answer the author can give without getting themselves on legal trouble is to tell you to abide to the law and legally purchase a copy of the book. Otherwise, they would be advising you to break the law stole from their partner (the publisher). In fact, jeffmcneill's reasonable answer seems a great scheme to fish for material to blackmail authors.
– Pere
yesterday

The only answer the author can give without getting themselves on legal trouble is to tell you to abide to the law and legally purchase a copy of the book. Otherwise, they would be advising you to break the law stole from their partner (the publisher). In fact, jeffmcneill's reasonable answer seems a great scheme to fish for material to blackmail authors.
– Pere
yesterday

add a comment |

up vote
1
down vote

Absolutely don't do it!

I illegally download almost all the books I need for my studies.

While I'm more than happy to give a middle-finger to the publisher mafia, it does of course mean that the author of the book is not appropriately compensated for their work.

But ... it is well-known that professors do not make substantial amounts of money for each copy sold of their textbook.

With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?

If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

... instead, do something else:

You know, "pay it forward":

If you know of a cause the author supports - consider donating to it.

If you're writing some academic material or software - consider making it freely-downloadable, officially.

If you're just an undergrad - perhaps do some kind of volunteer work, like helping high-school students who are having trouble keep up with some tutoring.

answered 2 hours ago

einpoklum

22.4k137130

add a comment |

up vote
1
down vote

Absolutely don't do it!

I illegally download almost all the books I need for my studies.

While I'm more than happy to give a middle-finger to the publisher mafia, it does of course mean that the author of the book is not appropriately compensated for their work.

But ... it is well-known that professors do not make substantial amounts of money for each copy sold of their textbook.

With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?

If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

... instead, do something else:

You know, "pay it forward":

If you know of a cause the author supports - consider donating to it.

If you're writing some academic material or software - consider making it freely-downloadable, officially.

If you're just an undergrad - perhaps do some kind of volunteer work, like helping high-school students who are having trouble keep up with some tutoring.

answered 2 hours ago

einpoklum

22.4k137130

add a comment |

up vote
1
down vote

Absolutely don't do it!

I illegally download almost all the books I need for my studies.

While I'm more than happy to give a middle-finger to the publisher mafia, it does of course mean that the author of the book is not appropriately compensated for their work.

But ... it is well-known that professors do not make substantial amounts of money for each copy sold of their textbook.

With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?

If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

... instead, do something else:

You know, "pay it forward":

If you know of a cause the author supports - consider donating to it.

If you're writing some academic material or software - consider making it freely-downloadable, officially.

If you're just an undergrad - perhaps do some kind of volunteer work, like helping high-school students who are having trouble keep up with some tutoring.

answered 2 hours ago

einpoklum

22.4k137130

Absolutely don't do it!

I illegally download almost all the books I need for my studies.

While I'm more than happy to give a middle-finger to the publisher mafia, it does of course mean that the author of the book is not appropriately compensated for their work.

But ... it is well-known that professors do not make substantial amounts of money for each copy sold of their textbook.

With that in mind, would it be appropriate to simply send those odd 10 dollars to the author of the book that I am illegally downloading?

If you are a professor who authored a book, how would you feel about this?

... instead, do something else:

You know, "pay it forward":

If you know of a cause the author supports - consider donating to it.

If you're writing some academic material or software - consider making it freely-downloadable, officially.

If you're just an undergrad - perhaps do some kind of volunteer work, like helping high-school students who are having trouble keep up with some tutoring.

answered 2 hours ago

einpoklum

22.4k137130

answered 2 hours ago

einpoklum

22.4k137130

answered 2 hours ago

einpoklum

22.4k137130

answered 2 hours ago

einpoklum

22.4k137130

add a comment |

up vote
0
down vote

There is a financial aspect you should also consider: these professors will receive unexpected money they need to somehow

declare or not

explain the provenance of, if someone (tax office, financial fraud groups, etc.) asks them

Both cases are probably over the top for 10 USD (and you will likely be only one to send them the money) but can be stressful to them.

Send the money to a charity instead.

answered 44 mins ago

WoJ

2,453714

add a comment |

up vote
0
down vote

There is a financial aspect you should also consider: these professors will receive unexpected money they need to somehow

declare or not

explain the provenance of, if someone (tax office, financial fraud groups, etc.) asks them

Both cases are probably over the top for 10 USD (and you will likely be only one to send them the money) but can be stressful to them.

Send the money to a charity instead.

answered 44 mins ago

WoJ

2,453714

add a comment |

up vote
0
down vote

There is a financial aspect you should also consider: these professors will receive unexpected money they need to somehow

declare or not

explain the provenance of, if someone (tax office, financial fraud groups, etc.) asks them

Both cases are probably over the top for 10 USD (and you will likely be only one to send them the money) but can be stressful to them.

Send the money to a charity instead.

answered 44 mins ago

WoJ

2,453714

There is a financial aspect you should also consider: these professors will receive unexpected money they need to somehow

declare or not

explain the provenance of, if someone (tax office, financial fraud groups, etc.) asks them

Both cases are probably over the top for 10 USD (and you will likely be only one to send them the money) but can be stressful to them.

Send the money to a charity instead.

answered 44 mins ago

WoJ

2,453714

answered 44 mins ago

WoJ

2,453714

answered 44 mins ago

WoJ

2,453714

answered 44 mins ago

WoJ

2,453714

add a comment |

up vote
-1
down vote

No,If it for personal use is fine, but if you trying to make money of it, then that would be a crime, he should understand student not rich.

answered 15 hours ago

arsyad power

New contributor

3

This is off-topic: The OP most likely has already formed their opinion about the legitimacy of pirating the book, and is asking about the practicality of their preferred method of compensation.
– darij grinberg
15 hours ago

This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
– Scientist
38 mins ago

add a comment |

up vote
-1
down vote

No,If it for personal use is fine, but if you trying to make money of it, then that would be a crime, he should understand student not rich.

answered 15 hours ago

arsyad power

New contributor

3

This is off-topic: The OP most likely has already formed their opinion about the legitimacy of pirating the book, and is asking about the practicality of their preferred method of compensation.
– darij grinberg
15 hours ago

This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
– Scientist
38 mins ago

add a comment |

up vote
-1
down vote

No,If it for personal use is fine, but if you trying to make money of it, then that would be a crime, he should understand student not rich.

answered 15 hours ago

arsyad power

New contributor

No,If it for personal use is fine, but if you trying to make money of it, then that would be a crime, he should understand student not rich.

answered 15 hours ago

arsyad power

New contributor

answered 15 hours ago

arsyad power

New contributor

answered 15 hours ago

arsyad power

answered 15 hours ago

arsyad power

New contributor

arsyad power is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

3

This is off-topic: The OP most likely has already formed their opinion about the legitimacy of pirating the book, and is asking about the practicality of their preferred method of compensation.
– darij grinberg
15 hours ago

This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
– Scientist
38 mins ago

add a comment |

3

This is off-topic: The OP most likely has already formed their opinion about the legitimacy of pirating the book, and is asking about the practicality of their preferred method of compensation.
– darij grinberg
15 hours ago

This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
– Scientist
38 mins ago

This is off-topic: The OP most likely has already formed their opinion about the legitimacy of pirating the book, and is asking about the practicality of their preferred method of compensation.
– darij grinberg
15 hours ago

This does not provide an answer to the question. Once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post; instead, provide answers that don't require clarification from the asker. - From Review
– Scientist
38 mins ago

add a comment |

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