Why $F rightarrow T implies neg F rightarrow neg T implies T rightarrow F$ is wrong? [closed]












0












$begingroup$


$$
F rightarrow T implies neg F rightarrow neg T implies T rightarrow F
$$

Why is this reasoning wrong according to the truth table of implication in logic?



Thanks.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$



closed as off-topic by Adrian Keister, user91500, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Song Jan 12 at 19:09


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – Adrian Keister, user91500, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Song

If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
















  • $begingroup$
    Focus on $F to T implieslnot F tolnot T$, as $lnot F tolnot T implies T to F$ is correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Arthur
    Jan 11 at 19:01












  • $begingroup$
    I don't understand what you're asking. Are $T$ and $F$ truth values? Or are they statements? Also, what is the distinction you're making between "$rightarrow$" and "$Rightarrow$"?
    $endgroup$
    – Joe
    Jan 11 at 19:01












  • $begingroup$
    What is $implies$ -- does that mean "simplify to"?
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 19:02










  • $begingroup$
    I'd argue that F -> T implies not T -> not F
    $endgroup$
    – Andreas
    Jan 11 at 19:03










  • $begingroup$
    It's a tautology if $T$ and $F$ are logical propositions (unusual) and $implies$ is equivalent to $to$.
    $endgroup$
    – Dan Christensen
    Jan 12 at 17:48


















0












$begingroup$


$$
F rightarrow T implies neg F rightarrow neg T implies T rightarrow F
$$

Why is this reasoning wrong according to the truth table of implication in logic?



Thanks.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$



closed as off-topic by Adrian Keister, user91500, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Song Jan 12 at 19:09


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – Adrian Keister, user91500, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Song

If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
















  • $begingroup$
    Focus on $F to T implieslnot F tolnot T$, as $lnot F tolnot T implies T to F$ is correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Arthur
    Jan 11 at 19:01












  • $begingroup$
    I don't understand what you're asking. Are $T$ and $F$ truth values? Or are they statements? Also, what is the distinction you're making between "$rightarrow$" and "$Rightarrow$"?
    $endgroup$
    – Joe
    Jan 11 at 19:01












  • $begingroup$
    What is $implies$ -- does that mean "simplify to"?
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 19:02










  • $begingroup$
    I'd argue that F -> T implies not T -> not F
    $endgroup$
    – Andreas
    Jan 11 at 19:03










  • $begingroup$
    It's a tautology if $T$ and $F$ are logical propositions (unusual) and $implies$ is equivalent to $to$.
    $endgroup$
    – Dan Christensen
    Jan 12 at 17:48
















0












0








0





$begingroup$


$$
F rightarrow T implies neg F rightarrow neg T implies T rightarrow F
$$

Why is this reasoning wrong according to the truth table of implication in logic?



Thanks.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




$$
F rightarrow T implies neg F rightarrow neg T implies T rightarrow F
$$

Why is this reasoning wrong according to the truth table of implication in logic?



Thanks.







discrete-mathematics logic






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Jan 11 at 19:06









6005

36.2k751125




36.2k751125










asked Jan 11 at 18:57









FriendlyFullStackFriendlyFullStack

62




62




closed as off-topic by Adrian Keister, user91500, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Song Jan 12 at 19:09


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – Adrian Keister, user91500, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Song

If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.







closed as off-topic by Adrian Keister, user91500, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Song Jan 12 at 19:09


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – Adrian Keister, user91500, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Song

If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.












  • $begingroup$
    Focus on $F to T implieslnot F tolnot T$, as $lnot F tolnot T implies T to F$ is correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Arthur
    Jan 11 at 19:01












  • $begingroup$
    I don't understand what you're asking. Are $T$ and $F$ truth values? Or are they statements? Also, what is the distinction you're making between "$rightarrow$" and "$Rightarrow$"?
    $endgroup$
    – Joe
    Jan 11 at 19:01












  • $begingroup$
    What is $implies$ -- does that mean "simplify to"?
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 19:02










  • $begingroup$
    I'd argue that F -> T implies not T -> not F
    $endgroup$
    – Andreas
    Jan 11 at 19:03










  • $begingroup$
    It's a tautology if $T$ and $F$ are logical propositions (unusual) and $implies$ is equivalent to $to$.
    $endgroup$
    – Dan Christensen
    Jan 12 at 17:48




















  • $begingroup$
    Focus on $F to T implieslnot F tolnot T$, as $lnot F tolnot T implies T to F$ is correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Arthur
    Jan 11 at 19:01












  • $begingroup$
    I don't understand what you're asking. Are $T$ and $F$ truth values? Or are they statements? Also, what is the distinction you're making between "$rightarrow$" and "$Rightarrow$"?
    $endgroup$
    – Joe
    Jan 11 at 19:01












  • $begingroup$
    What is $implies$ -- does that mean "simplify to"?
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 19:02










  • $begingroup$
    I'd argue that F -> T implies not T -> not F
    $endgroup$
    – Andreas
    Jan 11 at 19:03










  • $begingroup$
    It's a tautology if $T$ and $F$ are logical propositions (unusual) and $implies$ is equivalent to $to$.
    $endgroup$
    – Dan Christensen
    Jan 12 at 17:48


















$begingroup$
Focus on $F to T implieslnot F tolnot T$, as $lnot F tolnot T implies T to F$ is correct.
$endgroup$
– Arthur
Jan 11 at 19:01






$begingroup$
Focus on $F to T implieslnot F tolnot T$, as $lnot F tolnot T implies T to F$ is correct.
$endgroup$
– Arthur
Jan 11 at 19:01














$begingroup$
I don't understand what you're asking. Are $T$ and $F$ truth values? Or are they statements? Also, what is the distinction you're making between "$rightarrow$" and "$Rightarrow$"?
$endgroup$
– Joe
Jan 11 at 19:01






$begingroup$
I don't understand what you're asking. Are $T$ and $F$ truth values? Or are they statements? Also, what is the distinction you're making between "$rightarrow$" and "$Rightarrow$"?
$endgroup$
– Joe
Jan 11 at 19:01














$begingroup$
What is $implies$ -- does that mean "simplify to"?
$endgroup$
– 6005
Jan 11 at 19:02




$begingroup$
What is $implies$ -- does that mean "simplify to"?
$endgroup$
– 6005
Jan 11 at 19:02












$begingroup$
I'd argue that F -> T implies not T -> not F
$endgroup$
– Andreas
Jan 11 at 19:03




$begingroup$
I'd argue that F -> T implies not T -> not F
$endgroup$
– Andreas
Jan 11 at 19:03












$begingroup$
It's a tautology if $T$ and $F$ are logical propositions (unusual) and $implies$ is equivalent to $to$.
$endgroup$
– Dan Christensen
Jan 12 at 17:48






$begingroup$
It's a tautology if $T$ and $F$ are logical propositions (unusual) and $implies$ is equivalent to $to$.
$endgroup$
– Dan Christensen
Jan 12 at 17:48












2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















2












$begingroup$

Let's go through your statements one at a time:
$$
F to T
$$

Looking at the truth table, this evaluates to $T$ (true).
$$
lnot F to lnot T
$$

(I use $lnot$ to denote "not") -- this one simplifies to $T to F$. Then looking at the truth table, it's $F$.
$$
T to F
$$

As we just saw, that is also $F$ (false).





So it looks like your problem is going from $F to T$ to $lnot F to lnot T$. That jump is not correct. In general,
$$
A to B text{ is equivalent to } lnot B to lnot A
$$

but
$$
A to B text{ is not necessarily equivalent to } lnot A to lnot B.
$$






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A this is what a was missing then. Thanks
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @FriendlyFullStack You are welcome
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 19:12










  • $begingroup$
    Could you please give me a reference containing the proof of this rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" ?
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:14








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    For the curious ones: proof of rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" math.stackexchange.com/q/3070256/633862
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:44



















1












$begingroup$

This is because, unlike algebra with equality operations $=$, you do not preserve truth in logical implications $rightarrow$ by performing the same operation on both sides.



I assume you started with
$$
F rightarrow T
$$

which is correct, and then proceeded to negate both sides like this
$$
neg F rightarrow neg T
$$

However this is not true because of how $rightarrow$ works with the implication.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    " unlike algebra, you do not preserve truth in logic by performing the same operation on both sides" I think that's misleading. The point isn't that logic is different from algebra, it's that "$rightarrow$" is different from "$=$." E.g. you can't do the same thing to both sides of an inequality in algebra, either: $2<3notrightarrow -2<-3$.
    $endgroup$
    – Noah Schweber
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @NoahSchweber Beat me to it.
    $endgroup$
    – J.G.
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @NoahSchweber tried to make it more clear what I was saying
    $endgroup$
    – wjmccann
    Jan 11 at 19:13


















2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









2












$begingroup$

Let's go through your statements one at a time:
$$
F to T
$$

Looking at the truth table, this evaluates to $T$ (true).
$$
lnot F to lnot T
$$

(I use $lnot$ to denote "not") -- this one simplifies to $T to F$. Then looking at the truth table, it's $F$.
$$
T to F
$$

As we just saw, that is also $F$ (false).





So it looks like your problem is going from $F to T$ to $lnot F to lnot T$. That jump is not correct. In general,
$$
A to B text{ is equivalent to } lnot B to lnot A
$$

but
$$
A to B text{ is not necessarily equivalent to } lnot A to lnot B.
$$






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A this is what a was missing then. Thanks
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @FriendlyFullStack You are welcome
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 19:12










  • $begingroup$
    Could you please give me a reference containing the proof of this rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" ?
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:14








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    For the curious ones: proof of rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" math.stackexchange.com/q/3070256/633862
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:44
















2












$begingroup$

Let's go through your statements one at a time:
$$
F to T
$$

Looking at the truth table, this evaluates to $T$ (true).
$$
lnot F to lnot T
$$

(I use $lnot$ to denote "not") -- this one simplifies to $T to F$. Then looking at the truth table, it's $F$.
$$
T to F
$$

As we just saw, that is also $F$ (false).





So it looks like your problem is going from $F to T$ to $lnot F to lnot T$. That jump is not correct. In general,
$$
A to B text{ is equivalent to } lnot B to lnot A
$$

but
$$
A to B text{ is not necessarily equivalent to } lnot A to lnot B.
$$






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A this is what a was missing then. Thanks
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @FriendlyFullStack You are welcome
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 19:12










  • $begingroup$
    Could you please give me a reference containing the proof of this rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" ?
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:14








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    For the curious ones: proof of rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" math.stackexchange.com/q/3070256/633862
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:44














2












2








2





$begingroup$

Let's go through your statements one at a time:
$$
F to T
$$

Looking at the truth table, this evaluates to $T$ (true).
$$
lnot F to lnot T
$$

(I use $lnot$ to denote "not") -- this one simplifies to $T to F$. Then looking at the truth table, it's $F$.
$$
T to F
$$

As we just saw, that is also $F$ (false).





So it looks like your problem is going from $F to T$ to $lnot F to lnot T$. That jump is not correct. In general,
$$
A to B text{ is equivalent to } lnot B to lnot A
$$

but
$$
A to B text{ is not necessarily equivalent to } lnot A to lnot B.
$$






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$



Let's go through your statements one at a time:
$$
F to T
$$

Looking at the truth table, this evaluates to $T$ (true).
$$
lnot F to lnot T
$$

(I use $lnot$ to denote "not") -- this one simplifies to $T to F$. Then looking at the truth table, it's $F$.
$$
T to F
$$

As we just saw, that is also $F$ (false).





So it looks like your problem is going from $F to T$ to $lnot F to lnot T$. That jump is not correct. In general,
$$
A to B text{ is equivalent to } lnot B to lnot A
$$

but
$$
A to B text{ is not necessarily equivalent to } lnot A to lnot B.
$$







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Jan 11 at 19:03









60056005

36.2k751125




36.2k751125












  • $begingroup$
    A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A this is what a was missing then. Thanks
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @FriendlyFullStack You are welcome
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 19:12










  • $begingroup$
    Could you please give me a reference containing the proof of this rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" ?
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:14








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    For the curious ones: proof of rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" math.stackexchange.com/q/3070256/633862
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:44


















  • $begingroup$
    A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A this is what a was missing then. Thanks
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @FriendlyFullStack You are welcome
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 19:12










  • $begingroup$
    Could you please give me a reference containing the proof of this rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" ?
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:14








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    For the curious ones: proof of rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" math.stackexchange.com/q/3070256/633862
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:44
















$begingroup$
A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A this is what a was missing then. Thanks
$endgroup$
– FriendlyFullStack
Jan 11 at 19:09




$begingroup$
A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A this is what a was missing then. Thanks
$endgroup$
– FriendlyFullStack
Jan 11 at 19:09












$begingroup$
@FriendlyFullStack You are welcome
$endgroup$
– 6005
Jan 11 at 19:12




$begingroup$
@FriendlyFullStack You are welcome
$endgroup$
– 6005
Jan 11 at 19:12












$begingroup$
Could you please give me a reference containing the proof of this rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" ?
$endgroup$
– FriendlyFullStack
Jan 11 at 19:14






$begingroup$
Could you please give me a reference containing the proof of this rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" ?
$endgroup$
– FriendlyFullStack
Jan 11 at 19:14






1




1




$begingroup$
For the curious ones: proof of rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" math.stackexchange.com/q/3070256/633862
$endgroup$
– FriendlyFullStack
Jan 11 at 19:44




$begingroup$
For the curious ones: proof of rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" math.stackexchange.com/q/3070256/633862
$endgroup$
– FriendlyFullStack
Jan 11 at 19:44











1












$begingroup$

This is because, unlike algebra with equality operations $=$, you do not preserve truth in logical implications $rightarrow$ by performing the same operation on both sides.



I assume you started with
$$
F rightarrow T
$$

which is correct, and then proceeded to negate both sides like this
$$
neg F rightarrow neg T
$$

However this is not true because of how $rightarrow$ works with the implication.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    " unlike algebra, you do not preserve truth in logic by performing the same operation on both sides" I think that's misleading. The point isn't that logic is different from algebra, it's that "$rightarrow$" is different from "$=$." E.g. you can't do the same thing to both sides of an inequality in algebra, either: $2<3notrightarrow -2<-3$.
    $endgroup$
    – Noah Schweber
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @NoahSchweber Beat me to it.
    $endgroup$
    – J.G.
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @NoahSchweber tried to make it more clear what I was saying
    $endgroup$
    – wjmccann
    Jan 11 at 19:13
















1












$begingroup$

This is because, unlike algebra with equality operations $=$, you do not preserve truth in logical implications $rightarrow$ by performing the same operation on both sides.



I assume you started with
$$
F rightarrow T
$$

which is correct, and then proceeded to negate both sides like this
$$
neg F rightarrow neg T
$$

However this is not true because of how $rightarrow$ works with the implication.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    " unlike algebra, you do not preserve truth in logic by performing the same operation on both sides" I think that's misleading. The point isn't that logic is different from algebra, it's that "$rightarrow$" is different from "$=$." E.g. you can't do the same thing to both sides of an inequality in algebra, either: $2<3notrightarrow -2<-3$.
    $endgroup$
    – Noah Schweber
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @NoahSchweber Beat me to it.
    $endgroup$
    – J.G.
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @NoahSchweber tried to make it more clear what I was saying
    $endgroup$
    – wjmccann
    Jan 11 at 19:13














1












1








1





$begingroup$

This is because, unlike algebra with equality operations $=$, you do not preserve truth in logical implications $rightarrow$ by performing the same operation on both sides.



I assume you started with
$$
F rightarrow T
$$

which is correct, and then proceeded to negate both sides like this
$$
neg F rightarrow neg T
$$

However this is not true because of how $rightarrow$ works with the implication.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



This is because, unlike algebra with equality operations $=$, you do not preserve truth in logical implications $rightarrow$ by performing the same operation on both sides.



I assume you started with
$$
F rightarrow T
$$

which is correct, and then proceeded to negate both sides like this
$$
neg F rightarrow neg T
$$

However this is not true because of how $rightarrow$ works with the implication.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Jan 11 at 19:12

























answered Jan 11 at 19:06









wjmccannwjmccann

654118




654118








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    " unlike algebra, you do not preserve truth in logic by performing the same operation on both sides" I think that's misleading. The point isn't that logic is different from algebra, it's that "$rightarrow$" is different from "$=$." E.g. you can't do the same thing to both sides of an inequality in algebra, either: $2<3notrightarrow -2<-3$.
    $endgroup$
    – Noah Schweber
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @NoahSchweber Beat me to it.
    $endgroup$
    – J.G.
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @NoahSchweber tried to make it more clear what I was saying
    $endgroup$
    – wjmccann
    Jan 11 at 19:13














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    " unlike algebra, you do not preserve truth in logic by performing the same operation on both sides" I think that's misleading. The point isn't that logic is different from algebra, it's that "$rightarrow$" is different from "$=$." E.g. you can't do the same thing to both sides of an inequality in algebra, either: $2<3notrightarrow -2<-3$.
    $endgroup$
    – Noah Schweber
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @NoahSchweber Beat me to it.
    $endgroup$
    – J.G.
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @NoahSchweber tried to make it more clear what I was saying
    $endgroup$
    – wjmccann
    Jan 11 at 19:13








1




1




$begingroup$
" unlike algebra, you do not preserve truth in logic by performing the same operation on both sides" I think that's misleading. The point isn't that logic is different from algebra, it's that "$rightarrow$" is different from "$=$." E.g. you can't do the same thing to both sides of an inequality in algebra, either: $2<3notrightarrow -2<-3$.
$endgroup$
– Noah Schweber
Jan 11 at 19:09




$begingroup$
" unlike algebra, you do not preserve truth in logic by performing the same operation on both sides" I think that's misleading. The point isn't that logic is different from algebra, it's that "$rightarrow$" is different from "$=$." E.g. you can't do the same thing to both sides of an inequality in algebra, either: $2<3notrightarrow -2<-3$.
$endgroup$
– Noah Schweber
Jan 11 at 19:09












$begingroup$
@NoahSchweber Beat me to it.
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Jan 11 at 19:09




$begingroup$
@NoahSchweber Beat me to it.
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Jan 11 at 19:09












$begingroup$
@NoahSchweber tried to make it more clear what I was saying
$endgroup$
– wjmccann
Jan 11 at 19:13




$begingroup$
@NoahSchweber tried to make it more clear what I was saying
$endgroup$
– wjmccann
Jan 11 at 19:13



Popular posts from this blog

'app-layout' is not a known element: how to share Component with different Modules

android studio warns about leanback feature tag usage required on manifest while using Unity exported app?

WPF add header to Image with URL pettitions [duplicate]