Why $F rightarrow T implies neg F rightarrow neg T implies T rightarrow F$ is wrong? [closed]












0












$begingroup$


$$
F rightarrow T implies neg F rightarrow neg T implies T rightarrow F
$$

Why is this reasoning wrong according to the truth table of implication in logic?



Thanks.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$



closed as off-topic by Adrian Keister, user91500, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Song Jan 12 at 19:09


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – Adrian Keister, user91500, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Song

If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
















  • $begingroup$
    Focus on $F to T implieslnot F tolnot T$, as $lnot F tolnot T implies T to F$ is correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Arthur
    Jan 11 at 19:01












  • $begingroup$
    I don't understand what you're asking. Are $T$ and $F$ truth values? Or are they statements? Also, what is the distinction you're making between "$rightarrow$" and "$Rightarrow$"?
    $endgroup$
    – Joe
    Jan 11 at 19:01












  • $begingroup$
    What is $implies$ -- does that mean "simplify to"?
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 19:02










  • $begingroup$
    I'd argue that F -> T implies not T -> not F
    $endgroup$
    – Andreas
    Jan 11 at 19:03










  • $begingroup$
    It's a tautology if $T$ and $F$ are logical propositions (unusual) and $implies$ is equivalent to $to$.
    $endgroup$
    – Dan Christensen
    Jan 12 at 17:48


















0












$begingroup$


$$
F rightarrow T implies neg F rightarrow neg T implies T rightarrow F
$$

Why is this reasoning wrong according to the truth table of implication in logic?



Thanks.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$



closed as off-topic by Adrian Keister, user91500, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Song Jan 12 at 19:09


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – Adrian Keister, user91500, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Song

If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
















  • $begingroup$
    Focus on $F to T implieslnot F tolnot T$, as $lnot F tolnot T implies T to F$ is correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Arthur
    Jan 11 at 19:01












  • $begingroup$
    I don't understand what you're asking. Are $T$ and $F$ truth values? Or are they statements? Also, what is the distinction you're making between "$rightarrow$" and "$Rightarrow$"?
    $endgroup$
    – Joe
    Jan 11 at 19:01












  • $begingroup$
    What is $implies$ -- does that mean "simplify to"?
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 19:02










  • $begingroup$
    I'd argue that F -> T implies not T -> not F
    $endgroup$
    – Andreas
    Jan 11 at 19:03










  • $begingroup$
    It's a tautology if $T$ and $F$ are logical propositions (unusual) and $implies$ is equivalent to $to$.
    $endgroup$
    – Dan Christensen
    Jan 12 at 17:48
















0












0








0





$begingroup$


$$
F rightarrow T implies neg F rightarrow neg T implies T rightarrow F
$$

Why is this reasoning wrong according to the truth table of implication in logic?



Thanks.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




$$
F rightarrow T implies neg F rightarrow neg T implies T rightarrow F
$$

Why is this reasoning wrong according to the truth table of implication in logic?



Thanks.







discrete-mathematics logic






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Jan 11 at 19:06









6005

36.2k751125




36.2k751125










asked Jan 11 at 18:57









FriendlyFullStackFriendlyFullStack

62




62




closed as off-topic by Adrian Keister, user91500, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Song Jan 12 at 19:09


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – Adrian Keister, user91500, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Song

If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.







closed as off-topic by Adrian Keister, user91500, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Song Jan 12 at 19:09


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "This question is missing context or other details: Please provide additional context, which ideally explains why the question is relevant to you and our community. Some forms of context include: background and motivation, relevant definitions, source, possible strategies, your current progress, why the question is interesting or important, etc." – Adrian Keister, user91500, José Carlos Santos, amWhy, Song

If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.












  • $begingroup$
    Focus on $F to T implieslnot F tolnot T$, as $lnot F tolnot T implies T to F$ is correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Arthur
    Jan 11 at 19:01












  • $begingroup$
    I don't understand what you're asking. Are $T$ and $F$ truth values? Or are they statements? Also, what is the distinction you're making between "$rightarrow$" and "$Rightarrow$"?
    $endgroup$
    – Joe
    Jan 11 at 19:01












  • $begingroup$
    What is $implies$ -- does that mean "simplify to"?
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 19:02










  • $begingroup$
    I'd argue that F -> T implies not T -> not F
    $endgroup$
    – Andreas
    Jan 11 at 19:03










  • $begingroup$
    It's a tautology if $T$ and $F$ are logical propositions (unusual) and $implies$ is equivalent to $to$.
    $endgroup$
    – Dan Christensen
    Jan 12 at 17:48




















  • $begingroup$
    Focus on $F to T implieslnot F tolnot T$, as $lnot F tolnot T implies T to F$ is correct.
    $endgroup$
    – Arthur
    Jan 11 at 19:01












  • $begingroup$
    I don't understand what you're asking. Are $T$ and $F$ truth values? Or are they statements? Also, what is the distinction you're making between "$rightarrow$" and "$Rightarrow$"?
    $endgroup$
    – Joe
    Jan 11 at 19:01












  • $begingroup$
    What is $implies$ -- does that mean "simplify to"?
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 19:02










  • $begingroup$
    I'd argue that F -> T implies not T -> not F
    $endgroup$
    – Andreas
    Jan 11 at 19:03










  • $begingroup$
    It's a tautology if $T$ and $F$ are logical propositions (unusual) and $implies$ is equivalent to $to$.
    $endgroup$
    – Dan Christensen
    Jan 12 at 17:48


















$begingroup$
Focus on $F to T implieslnot F tolnot T$, as $lnot F tolnot T implies T to F$ is correct.
$endgroup$
– Arthur
Jan 11 at 19:01






$begingroup$
Focus on $F to T implieslnot F tolnot T$, as $lnot F tolnot T implies T to F$ is correct.
$endgroup$
– Arthur
Jan 11 at 19:01














$begingroup$
I don't understand what you're asking. Are $T$ and $F$ truth values? Or are they statements? Also, what is the distinction you're making between "$rightarrow$" and "$Rightarrow$"?
$endgroup$
– Joe
Jan 11 at 19:01






$begingroup$
I don't understand what you're asking. Are $T$ and $F$ truth values? Or are they statements? Also, what is the distinction you're making between "$rightarrow$" and "$Rightarrow$"?
$endgroup$
– Joe
Jan 11 at 19:01














$begingroup$
What is $implies$ -- does that mean "simplify to"?
$endgroup$
– 6005
Jan 11 at 19:02




$begingroup$
What is $implies$ -- does that mean "simplify to"?
$endgroup$
– 6005
Jan 11 at 19:02












$begingroup$
I'd argue that F -> T implies not T -> not F
$endgroup$
– Andreas
Jan 11 at 19:03




$begingroup$
I'd argue that F -> T implies not T -> not F
$endgroup$
– Andreas
Jan 11 at 19:03












$begingroup$
It's a tautology if $T$ and $F$ are logical propositions (unusual) and $implies$ is equivalent to $to$.
$endgroup$
– Dan Christensen
Jan 12 at 17:48






$begingroup$
It's a tautology if $T$ and $F$ are logical propositions (unusual) and $implies$ is equivalent to $to$.
$endgroup$
– Dan Christensen
Jan 12 at 17:48












2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















2












$begingroup$

Let's go through your statements one at a time:
$$
F to T
$$

Looking at the truth table, this evaluates to $T$ (true).
$$
lnot F to lnot T
$$

(I use $lnot$ to denote "not") -- this one simplifies to $T to F$. Then looking at the truth table, it's $F$.
$$
T to F
$$

As we just saw, that is also $F$ (false).





So it looks like your problem is going from $F to T$ to $lnot F to lnot T$. That jump is not correct. In general,
$$
A to B text{ is equivalent to } lnot B to lnot A
$$

but
$$
A to B text{ is not necessarily equivalent to } lnot A to lnot B.
$$






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A this is what a was missing then. Thanks
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @FriendlyFullStack You are welcome
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 19:12










  • $begingroup$
    Could you please give me a reference containing the proof of this rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" ?
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:14








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    For the curious ones: proof of rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" math.stackexchange.com/q/3070256/633862
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:44



















1












$begingroup$

This is because, unlike algebra with equality operations $=$, you do not preserve truth in logical implications $rightarrow$ by performing the same operation on both sides.



I assume you started with
$$
F rightarrow T
$$

which is correct, and then proceeded to negate both sides like this
$$
neg F rightarrow neg T
$$

However this is not true because of how $rightarrow$ works with the implication.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    " unlike algebra, you do not preserve truth in logic by performing the same operation on both sides" I think that's misleading. The point isn't that logic is different from algebra, it's that "$rightarrow$" is different from "$=$." E.g. you can't do the same thing to both sides of an inequality in algebra, either: $2<3notrightarrow -2<-3$.
    $endgroup$
    – Noah Schweber
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @NoahSchweber Beat me to it.
    $endgroup$
    – J.G.
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @NoahSchweber tried to make it more clear what I was saying
    $endgroup$
    – wjmccann
    Jan 11 at 19:13


















2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









2












$begingroup$

Let's go through your statements one at a time:
$$
F to T
$$

Looking at the truth table, this evaluates to $T$ (true).
$$
lnot F to lnot T
$$

(I use $lnot$ to denote "not") -- this one simplifies to $T to F$. Then looking at the truth table, it's $F$.
$$
T to F
$$

As we just saw, that is also $F$ (false).





So it looks like your problem is going from $F to T$ to $lnot F to lnot T$. That jump is not correct. In general,
$$
A to B text{ is equivalent to } lnot B to lnot A
$$

but
$$
A to B text{ is not necessarily equivalent to } lnot A to lnot B.
$$






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A this is what a was missing then. Thanks
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @FriendlyFullStack You are welcome
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 19:12










  • $begingroup$
    Could you please give me a reference containing the proof of this rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" ?
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:14








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    For the curious ones: proof of rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" math.stackexchange.com/q/3070256/633862
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:44
















2












$begingroup$

Let's go through your statements one at a time:
$$
F to T
$$

Looking at the truth table, this evaluates to $T$ (true).
$$
lnot F to lnot T
$$

(I use $lnot$ to denote "not") -- this one simplifies to $T to F$. Then looking at the truth table, it's $F$.
$$
T to F
$$

As we just saw, that is also $F$ (false).





So it looks like your problem is going from $F to T$ to $lnot F to lnot T$. That jump is not correct. In general,
$$
A to B text{ is equivalent to } lnot B to lnot A
$$

but
$$
A to B text{ is not necessarily equivalent to } lnot A to lnot B.
$$






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A this is what a was missing then. Thanks
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @FriendlyFullStack You are welcome
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 19:12










  • $begingroup$
    Could you please give me a reference containing the proof of this rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" ?
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:14








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    For the curious ones: proof of rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" math.stackexchange.com/q/3070256/633862
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:44














2












2








2





$begingroup$

Let's go through your statements one at a time:
$$
F to T
$$

Looking at the truth table, this evaluates to $T$ (true).
$$
lnot F to lnot T
$$

(I use $lnot$ to denote "not") -- this one simplifies to $T to F$. Then looking at the truth table, it's $F$.
$$
T to F
$$

As we just saw, that is also $F$ (false).





So it looks like your problem is going from $F to T$ to $lnot F to lnot T$. That jump is not correct. In general,
$$
A to B text{ is equivalent to } lnot B to lnot A
$$

but
$$
A to B text{ is not necessarily equivalent to } lnot A to lnot B.
$$






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$



Let's go through your statements one at a time:
$$
F to T
$$

Looking at the truth table, this evaluates to $T$ (true).
$$
lnot F to lnot T
$$

(I use $lnot$ to denote "not") -- this one simplifies to $T to F$. Then looking at the truth table, it's $F$.
$$
T to F
$$

As we just saw, that is also $F$ (false).





So it looks like your problem is going from $F to T$ to $lnot F to lnot T$. That jump is not correct. In general,
$$
A to B text{ is equivalent to } lnot B to lnot A
$$

but
$$
A to B text{ is not necessarily equivalent to } lnot A to lnot B.
$$







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Jan 11 at 19:03









60056005

36.2k751125




36.2k751125












  • $begingroup$
    A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A this is what a was missing then. Thanks
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @FriendlyFullStack You are welcome
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 19:12










  • $begingroup$
    Could you please give me a reference containing the proof of this rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" ?
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:14








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    For the curious ones: proof of rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" math.stackexchange.com/q/3070256/633862
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:44


















  • $begingroup$
    A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A this is what a was missing then. Thanks
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @FriendlyFullStack You are welcome
    $endgroup$
    – 6005
    Jan 11 at 19:12










  • $begingroup$
    Could you please give me a reference containing the proof of this rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" ?
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:14








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    For the curious ones: proof of rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" math.stackexchange.com/q/3070256/633862
    $endgroup$
    – FriendlyFullStack
    Jan 11 at 19:44
















$begingroup$
A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A this is what a was missing then. Thanks
$endgroup$
– FriendlyFullStack
Jan 11 at 19:09




$begingroup$
A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A this is what a was missing then. Thanks
$endgroup$
– FriendlyFullStack
Jan 11 at 19:09












$begingroup$
@FriendlyFullStack You are welcome
$endgroup$
– 6005
Jan 11 at 19:12




$begingroup$
@FriendlyFullStack You are welcome
$endgroup$
– 6005
Jan 11 at 19:12












$begingroup$
Could you please give me a reference containing the proof of this rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" ?
$endgroup$
– FriendlyFullStack
Jan 11 at 19:14






$begingroup$
Could you please give me a reference containing the proof of this rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" ?
$endgroup$
– FriendlyFullStack
Jan 11 at 19:14






1




1




$begingroup$
For the curious ones: proof of rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" math.stackexchange.com/q/3070256/633862
$endgroup$
– FriendlyFullStack
Jan 11 at 19:44




$begingroup$
For the curious ones: proof of rule "A→B is equivalent to ¬B→¬A" math.stackexchange.com/q/3070256/633862
$endgroup$
– FriendlyFullStack
Jan 11 at 19:44











1












$begingroup$

This is because, unlike algebra with equality operations $=$, you do not preserve truth in logical implications $rightarrow$ by performing the same operation on both sides.



I assume you started with
$$
F rightarrow T
$$

which is correct, and then proceeded to negate both sides like this
$$
neg F rightarrow neg T
$$

However this is not true because of how $rightarrow$ works with the implication.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    " unlike algebra, you do not preserve truth in logic by performing the same operation on both sides" I think that's misleading. The point isn't that logic is different from algebra, it's that "$rightarrow$" is different from "$=$." E.g. you can't do the same thing to both sides of an inequality in algebra, either: $2<3notrightarrow -2<-3$.
    $endgroup$
    – Noah Schweber
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @NoahSchweber Beat me to it.
    $endgroup$
    – J.G.
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @NoahSchweber tried to make it more clear what I was saying
    $endgroup$
    – wjmccann
    Jan 11 at 19:13
















1












$begingroup$

This is because, unlike algebra with equality operations $=$, you do not preserve truth in logical implications $rightarrow$ by performing the same operation on both sides.



I assume you started with
$$
F rightarrow T
$$

which is correct, and then proceeded to negate both sides like this
$$
neg F rightarrow neg T
$$

However this is not true because of how $rightarrow$ works with the implication.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    " unlike algebra, you do not preserve truth in logic by performing the same operation on both sides" I think that's misleading. The point isn't that logic is different from algebra, it's that "$rightarrow$" is different from "$=$." E.g. you can't do the same thing to both sides of an inequality in algebra, either: $2<3notrightarrow -2<-3$.
    $endgroup$
    – Noah Schweber
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @NoahSchweber Beat me to it.
    $endgroup$
    – J.G.
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @NoahSchweber tried to make it more clear what I was saying
    $endgroup$
    – wjmccann
    Jan 11 at 19:13














1












1








1





$begingroup$

This is because, unlike algebra with equality operations $=$, you do not preserve truth in logical implications $rightarrow$ by performing the same operation on both sides.



I assume you started with
$$
F rightarrow T
$$

which is correct, and then proceeded to negate both sides like this
$$
neg F rightarrow neg T
$$

However this is not true because of how $rightarrow$ works with the implication.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



This is because, unlike algebra with equality operations $=$, you do not preserve truth in logical implications $rightarrow$ by performing the same operation on both sides.



I assume you started with
$$
F rightarrow T
$$

which is correct, and then proceeded to negate both sides like this
$$
neg F rightarrow neg T
$$

However this is not true because of how $rightarrow$ works with the implication.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Jan 11 at 19:12

























answered Jan 11 at 19:06









wjmccannwjmccann

654118




654118








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    " unlike algebra, you do not preserve truth in logic by performing the same operation on both sides" I think that's misleading. The point isn't that logic is different from algebra, it's that "$rightarrow$" is different from "$=$." E.g. you can't do the same thing to both sides of an inequality in algebra, either: $2<3notrightarrow -2<-3$.
    $endgroup$
    – Noah Schweber
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @NoahSchweber Beat me to it.
    $endgroup$
    – J.G.
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @NoahSchweber tried to make it more clear what I was saying
    $endgroup$
    – wjmccann
    Jan 11 at 19:13














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    " unlike algebra, you do not preserve truth in logic by performing the same operation on both sides" I think that's misleading. The point isn't that logic is different from algebra, it's that "$rightarrow$" is different from "$=$." E.g. you can't do the same thing to both sides of an inequality in algebra, either: $2<3notrightarrow -2<-3$.
    $endgroup$
    – Noah Schweber
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @NoahSchweber Beat me to it.
    $endgroup$
    – J.G.
    Jan 11 at 19:09










  • $begingroup$
    @NoahSchweber tried to make it more clear what I was saying
    $endgroup$
    – wjmccann
    Jan 11 at 19:13








1




1




$begingroup$
" unlike algebra, you do not preserve truth in logic by performing the same operation on both sides" I think that's misleading. The point isn't that logic is different from algebra, it's that "$rightarrow$" is different from "$=$." E.g. you can't do the same thing to both sides of an inequality in algebra, either: $2<3notrightarrow -2<-3$.
$endgroup$
– Noah Schweber
Jan 11 at 19:09




$begingroup$
" unlike algebra, you do not preserve truth in logic by performing the same operation on both sides" I think that's misleading. The point isn't that logic is different from algebra, it's that "$rightarrow$" is different from "$=$." E.g. you can't do the same thing to both sides of an inequality in algebra, either: $2<3notrightarrow -2<-3$.
$endgroup$
– Noah Schweber
Jan 11 at 19:09












$begingroup$
@NoahSchweber Beat me to it.
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Jan 11 at 19:09




$begingroup$
@NoahSchweber Beat me to it.
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Jan 11 at 19:09












$begingroup$
@NoahSchweber tried to make it more clear what I was saying
$endgroup$
– wjmccann
Jan 11 at 19:13




$begingroup$
@NoahSchweber tried to make it more clear what I was saying
$endgroup$
– wjmccann
Jan 11 at 19:13



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