How does $x_{n+1}ge x_nland y_{y+1}le y_n land lim_{ntoinfty}(x_n-y_n) = 0implies lim x_n = lim y_n$ and both...












0












$begingroup$



Let $x_n$ and $y_n$ denote two sequences. The sequences are given such that:
$$
x_{n+1} ge x_n \
y_{n+1} le y_n \
lim_{ntoinfty}(x_n-y_n) = 0
$$

Prove that both $x_n$ and $y_n$ are convergent and:
$$
lim_{ntoinfty} x_n = lim_{ntoinfty}y_n
$$




I'm not sure how to proceed with the proof. I've started with inspecting the relations between $x_n$ and $y_n$:
$$
x_{n+1} ge x_n \
y_{n+1} le y_n \ iff
\
x_{n+1} ge x_n \
-y_{n+1} ge -y_n
$$

From which it follows that:
$$
x_{n+1} - y_{n+1} ge x_n - y_n tag 1
$$



Denote $z_n = x_n - y_n$, then by $(1)$ it follows that $z_n$ is a monotonically increasing sequence:
$$
z_{n+1} ge z_n
$$

By monotone convergence theorem it follows that if $lim z_n = 0$ and $z_{n+1} ge z_n$ then $z_n le 0$. Also $z_n$ is convergent hence bounded:
$$
m le z_n le M
$$

By the fact that $z_n < 0$ it follows that $x_n < y_n$.
The problem is i do not see how to combine those facts in order to show what is requested in the problem statement. Seems like the problem may be reduced to using MCT for $x_n$ and $y_n$ alone or use the properties of $limsup$, $liminf$ or somehow use the triangular inequality but i do not see how.



What is a proper way to achieve that?










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$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Hint: Can you use $x_n<y_n$ to show that ${x_n}$ is bounded?
    $endgroup$
    – SmileyCraft
    Jan 10 at 14:04










  • $begingroup$
    @Uncountable $lim(x_n - y_n) = lim (n - (-n)) ne 0$ so it violates the initial conditions.
    $endgroup$
    – roman
    Jan 10 at 14:05










  • $begingroup$
    Yes, roman, I realised that as soon as I posted it. I apologise.
    $endgroup$
    – Uncountable
    Jan 10 at 14:07










  • $begingroup$
    @SmileyCraft I would appreciate if you could elaborate on this. Intuitively the statement is true however I don't see where the boundedness of $x_n$ comes from
    $endgroup$
    – roman
    Jan 10 at 14:13






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @roman By induction $y_nleq y_1$, so $y_1$ is an upper bound of ${x_n}$.
    $endgroup$
    – SmileyCraft
    Jan 10 at 14:15
















0












$begingroup$



Let $x_n$ and $y_n$ denote two sequences. The sequences are given such that:
$$
x_{n+1} ge x_n \
y_{n+1} le y_n \
lim_{ntoinfty}(x_n-y_n) = 0
$$

Prove that both $x_n$ and $y_n$ are convergent and:
$$
lim_{ntoinfty} x_n = lim_{ntoinfty}y_n
$$




I'm not sure how to proceed with the proof. I've started with inspecting the relations between $x_n$ and $y_n$:
$$
x_{n+1} ge x_n \
y_{n+1} le y_n \ iff
\
x_{n+1} ge x_n \
-y_{n+1} ge -y_n
$$

From which it follows that:
$$
x_{n+1} - y_{n+1} ge x_n - y_n tag 1
$$



Denote $z_n = x_n - y_n$, then by $(1)$ it follows that $z_n$ is a monotonically increasing sequence:
$$
z_{n+1} ge z_n
$$

By monotone convergence theorem it follows that if $lim z_n = 0$ and $z_{n+1} ge z_n$ then $z_n le 0$. Also $z_n$ is convergent hence bounded:
$$
m le z_n le M
$$

By the fact that $z_n < 0$ it follows that $x_n < y_n$.
The problem is i do not see how to combine those facts in order to show what is requested in the problem statement. Seems like the problem may be reduced to using MCT for $x_n$ and $y_n$ alone or use the properties of $limsup$, $liminf$ or somehow use the triangular inequality but i do not see how.



What is a proper way to achieve that?










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Hint: Can you use $x_n<y_n$ to show that ${x_n}$ is bounded?
    $endgroup$
    – SmileyCraft
    Jan 10 at 14:04










  • $begingroup$
    @Uncountable $lim(x_n - y_n) = lim (n - (-n)) ne 0$ so it violates the initial conditions.
    $endgroup$
    – roman
    Jan 10 at 14:05










  • $begingroup$
    Yes, roman, I realised that as soon as I posted it. I apologise.
    $endgroup$
    – Uncountable
    Jan 10 at 14:07










  • $begingroup$
    @SmileyCraft I would appreciate if you could elaborate on this. Intuitively the statement is true however I don't see where the boundedness of $x_n$ comes from
    $endgroup$
    – roman
    Jan 10 at 14:13






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @roman By induction $y_nleq y_1$, so $y_1$ is an upper bound of ${x_n}$.
    $endgroup$
    – SmileyCraft
    Jan 10 at 14:15














0












0








0





$begingroup$



Let $x_n$ and $y_n$ denote two sequences. The sequences are given such that:
$$
x_{n+1} ge x_n \
y_{n+1} le y_n \
lim_{ntoinfty}(x_n-y_n) = 0
$$

Prove that both $x_n$ and $y_n$ are convergent and:
$$
lim_{ntoinfty} x_n = lim_{ntoinfty}y_n
$$




I'm not sure how to proceed with the proof. I've started with inspecting the relations between $x_n$ and $y_n$:
$$
x_{n+1} ge x_n \
y_{n+1} le y_n \ iff
\
x_{n+1} ge x_n \
-y_{n+1} ge -y_n
$$

From which it follows that:
$$
x_{n+1} - y_{n+1} ge x_n - y_n tag 1
$$



Denote $z_n = x_n - y_n$, then by $(1)$ it follows that $z_n$ is a monotonically increasing sequence:
$$
z_{n+1} ge z_n
$$

By monotone convergence theorem it follows that if $lim z_n = 0$ and $z_{n+1} ge z_n$ then $z_n le 0$. Also $z_n$ is convergent hence bounded:
$$
m le z_n le M
$$

By the fact that $z_n < 0$ it follows that $x_n < y_n$.
The problem is i do not see how to combine those facts in order to show what is requested in the problem statement. Seems like the problem may be reduced to using MCT for $x_n$ and $y_n$ alone or use the properties of $limsup$, $liminf$ or somehow use the triangular inequality but i do not see how.



What is a proper way to achieve that?










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$





Let $x_n$ and $y_n$ denote two sequences. The sequences are given such that:
$$
x_{n+1} ge x_n \
y_{n+1} le y_n \
lim_{ntoinfty}(x_n-y_n) = 0
$$

Prove that both $x_n$ and $y_n$ are convergent and:
$$
lim_{ntoinfty} x_n = lim_{ntoinfty}y_n
$$




I'm not sure how to proceed with the proof. I've started with inspecting the relations between $x_n$ and $y_n$:
$$
x_{n+1} ge x_n \
y_{n+1} le y_n \ iff
\
x_{n+1} ge x_n \
-y_{n+1} ge -y_n
$$

From which it follows that:
$$
x_{n+1} - y_{n+1} ge x_n - y_n tag 1
$$



Denote $z_n = x_n - y_n$, then by $(1)$ it follows that $z_n$ is a monotonically increasing sequence:
$$
z_{n+1} ge z_n
$$

By monotone convergence theorem it follows that if $lim z_n = 0$ and $z_{n+1} ge z_n$ then $z_n le 0$. Also $z_n$ is convergent hence bounded:
$$
m le z_n le M
$$

By the fact that $z_n < 0$ it follows that $x_n < y_n$.
The problem is i do not see how to combine those facts in order to show what is requested in the problem statement. Seems like the problem may be reduced to using MCT for $x_n$ and $y_n$ alone or use the properties of $limsup$, $liminf$ or somehow use the triangular inequality but i do not see how.



What is a proper way to achieve that?







calculus sequences-and-series limits






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asked Jan 10 at 13:58









romanroman

2,17321224




2,17321224








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Hint: Can you use $x_n<y_n$ to show that ${x_n}$ is bounded?
    $endgroup$
    – SmileyCraft
    Jan 10 at 14:04










  • $begingroup$
    @Uncountable $lim(x_n - y_n) = lim (n - (-n)) ne 0$ so it violates the initial conditions.
    $endgroup$
    – roman
    Jan 10 at 14:05










  • $begingroup$
    Yes, roman, I realised that as soon as I posted it. I apologise.
    $endgroup$
    – Uncountable
    Jan 10 at 14:07










  • $begingroup$
    @SmileyCraft I would appreciate if you could elaborate on this. Intuitively the statement is true however I don't see where the boundedness of $x_n$ comes from
    $endgroup$
    – roman
    Jan 10 at 14:13






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @roman By induction $y_nleq y_1$, so $y_1$ is an upper bound of ${x_n}$.
    $endgroup$
    – SmileyCraft
    Jan 10 at 14:15














  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Hint: Can you use $x_n<y_n$ to show that ${x_n}$ is bounded?
    $endgroup$
    – SmileyCraft
    Jan 10 at 14:04










  • $begingroup$
    @Uncountable $lim(x_n - y_n) = lim (n - (-n)) ne 0$ so it violates the initial conditions.
    $endgroup$
    – roman
    Jan 10 at 14:05










  • $begingroup$
    Yes, roman, I realised that as soon as I posted it. I apologise.
    $endgroup$
    – Uncountable
    Jan 10 at 14:07










  • $begingroup$
    @SmileyCraft I would appreciate if you could elaborate on this. Intuitively the statement is true however I don't see where the boundedness of $x_n$ comes from
    $endgroup$
    – roman
    Jan 10 at 14:13






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @roman By induction $y_nleq y_1$, so $y_1$ is an upper bound of ${x_n}$.
    $endgroup$
    – SmileyCraft
    Jan 10 at 14:15








2




2




$begingroup$
Hint: Can you use $x_n<y_n$ to show that ${x_n}$ is bounded?
$endgroup$
– SmileyCraft
Jan 10 at 14:04




$begingroup$
Hint: Can you use $x_n<y_n$ to show that ${x_n}$ is bounded?
$endgroup$
– SmileyCraft
Jan 10 at 14:04












$begingroup$
@Uncountable $lim(x_n - y_n) = lim (n - (-n)) ne 0$ so it violates the initial conditions.
$endgroup$
– roman
Jan 10 at 14:05




$begingroup$
@Uncountable $lim(x_n - y_n) = lim (n - (-n)) ne 0$ so it violates the initial conditions.
$endgroup$
– roman
Jan 10 at 14:05












$begingroup$
Yes, roman, I realised that as soon as I posted it. I apologise.
$endgroup$
– Uncountable
Jan 10 at 14:07




$begingroup$
Yes, roman, I realised that as soon as I posted it. I apologise.
$endgroup$
– Uncountable
Jan 10 at 14:07












$begingroup$
@SmileyCraft I would appreciate if you could elaborate on this. Intuitively the statement is true however I don't see where the boundedness of $x_n$ comes from
$endgroup$
– roman
Jan 10 at 14:13




$begingroup$
@SmileyCraft I would appreciate if you could elaborate on this. Intuitively the statement is true however I don't see where the boundedness of $x_n$ comes from
$endgroup$
– roman
Jan 10 at 14:13




1




1




$begingroup$
@roman By induction $y_nleq y_1$, so $y_1$ is an upper bound of ${x_n}$.
$endgroup$
– SmileyCraft
Jan 10 at 14:15




$begingroup$
@roman By induction $y_nleq y_1$, so $y_1$ is an upper bound of ${x_n}$.
$endgroup$
– SmileyCraft
Jan 10 at 14:15










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















1












$begingroup$

I would proceed as follows, without reference to the “nested intervals lemma” (which is essentially equivalent to what you want to prove):



As you already observed, $z_n = x_n - y_n$ is increasing, with $lim_{n to infty} z_n = 0$. It follows that $x_n le y_n$ for all $n in Bbb N$.



Then
$$
x_n le x_{n+1} le y_{n+1} le y_1 quad (n in Bbb N)
$$

so that the sequence $(x_n)$ is increasing and bounded above, and therefore convergent: $lim_{n to infty} x_n$ exists.



Similarly,
$$
y_n ge y_{n+1} ge x_{n+1} ge x_1 quad (n in Bbb N)
$$

implies that $(y_n)$ is decreasing and bounded below, so that $lim_{n to infty} y_n$ exists as well.



Finally (since both limits exits),
$$
0 = lim_{ntoinfty}(x_n-y_n) = lim_{n to infty} x_n - lim_{n to infty} y_n
$$

so that the limits are equal.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Nice approach, thank you!
    $endgroup$
    – roman
    Jan 10 at 19:39



















0












$begingroup$

Using a hint by @SmileyCraft we might show that $x_n$ is bounded and increasing hence convergent. Consider the following inequality:
$$
x_n le y_n
$$

Since $x_n$ is monotonically decreasing we have that:
$$
x_n le x_{n+1}
$$



By $y_n$ is monotonically decreasing:
$$
y_{n+1} le y_{n}
$$



Expanding that further and using the fact $x_n le y_n$ we may obtain:
$$
x_1 le x_2 le cdots le x_{n-1} le x_{n} le x_{n+1} le y_{n+1} le y_n le y_{n-1} le cdots le y_2 le y_1
$$



Which a set of nested intervals. By the Nested intervals lemma and the fact that
$$
lim_{ntoinfty}(x_n - y_n) = 0
$$

we know that there is a single point $L$ which belongs to all of the intervals. By monotonicity of $x_n$ and $y_n$ this point appears to be the limit for both sequences. So by this $x_n$ and $y_n$ converge and:
$$
lim_{ntoinfty} x_n = lim_{ntoinfty} y_n =L
$$






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    I hope this is correct
    $endgroup$
    – roman
    Jan 10 at 14:53













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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









1












$begingroup$

I would proceed as follows, without reference to the “nested intervals lemma” (which is essentially equivalent to what you want to prove):



As you already observed, $z_n = x_n - y_n$ is increasing, with $lim_{n to infty} z_n = 0$. It follows that $x_n le y_n$ for all $n in Bbb N$.



Then
$$
x_n le x_{n+1} le y_{n+1} le y_1 quad (n in Bbb N)
$$

so that the sequence $(x_n)$ is increasing and bounded above, and therefore convergent: $lim_{n to infty} x_n$ exists.



Similarly,
$$
y_n ge y_{n+1} ge x_{n+1} ge x_1 quad (n in Bbb N)
$$

implies that $(y_n)$ is decreasing and bounded below, so that $lim_{n to infty} y_n$ exists as well.



Finally (since both limits exits),
$$
0 = lim_{ntoinfty}(x_n-y_n) = lim_{n to infty} x_n - lim_{n to infty} y_n
$$

so that the limits are equal.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Nice approach, thank you!
    $endgroup$
    – roman
    Jan 10 at 19:39
















1












$begingroup$

I would proceed as follows, without reference to the “nested intervals lemma” (which is essentially equivalent to what you want to prove):



As you already observed, $z_n = x_n - y_n$ is increasing, with $lim_{n to infty} z_n = 0$. It follows that $x_n le y_n$ for all $n in Bbb N$.



Then
$$
x_n le x_{n+1} le y_{n+1} le y_1 quad (n in Bbb N)
$$

so that the sequence $(x_n)$ is increasing and bounded above, and therefore convergent: $lim_{n to infty} x_n$ exists.



Similarly,
$$
y_n ge y_{n+1} ge x_{n+1} ge x_1 quad (n in Bbb N)
$$

implies that $(y_n)$ is decreasing and bounded below, so that $lim_{n to infty} y_n$ exists as well.



Finally (since both limits exits),
$$
0 = lim_{ntoinfty}(x_n-y_n) = lim_{n to infty} x_n - lim_{n to infty} y_n
$$

so that the limits are equal.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Nice approach, thank you!
    $endgroup$
    – roman
    Jan 10 at 19:39














1












1








1





$begingroup$

I would proceed as follows, without reference to the “nested intervals lemma” (which is essentially equivalent to what you want to prove):



As you already observed, $z_n = x_n - y_n$ is increasing, with $lim_{n to infty} z_n = 0$. It follows that $x_n le y_n$ for all $n in Bbb N$.



Then
$$
x_n le x_{n+1} le y_{n+1} le y_1 quad (n in Bbb N)
$$

so that the sequence $(x_n)$ is increasing and bounded above, and therefore convergent: $lim_{n to infty} x_n$ exists.



Similarly,
$$
y_n ge y_{n+1} ge x_{n+1} ge x_1 quad (n in Bbb N)
$$

implies that $(y_n)$ is decreasing and bounded below, so that $lim_{n to infty} y_n$ exists as well.



Finally (since both limits exits),
$$
0 = lim_{ntoinfty}(x_n-y_n) = lim_{n to infty} x_n - lim_{n to infty} y_n
$$

so that the limits are equal.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$



I would proceed as follows, without reference to the “nested intervals lemma” (which is essentially equivalent to what you want to prove):



As you already observed, $z_n = x_n - y_n$ is increasing, with $lim_{n to infty} z_n = 0$. It follows that $x_n le y_n$ for all $n in Bbb N$.



Then
$$
x_n le x_{n+1} le y_{n+1} le y_1 quad (n in Bbb N)
$$

so that the sequence $(x_n)$ is increasing and bounded above, and therefore convergent: $lim_{n to infty} x_n$ exists.



Similarly,
$$
y_n ge y_{n+1} ge x_{n+1} ge x_1 quad (n in Bbb N)
$$

implies that $(y_n)$ is decreasing and bounded below, so that $lim_{n to infty} y_n$ exists as well.



Finally (since both limits exits),
$$
0 = lim_{ntoinfty}(x_n-y_n) = lim_{n to infty} x_n - lim_{n to infty} y_n
$$

so that the limits are equal.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Jan 10 at 18:20









Martin RMartin R

28.1k33355




28.1k33355












  • $begingroup$
    Nice approach, thank you!
    $endgroup$
    – roman
    Jan 10 at 19:39


















  • $begingroup$
    Nice approach, thank you!
    $endgroup$
    – roman
    Jan 10 at 19:39
















$begingroup$
Nice approach, thank you!
$endgroup$
– roman
Jan 10 at 19:39




$begingroup$
Nice approach, thank you!
$endgroup$
– roman
Jan 10 at 19:39











0












$begingroup$

Using a hint by @SmileyCraft we might show that $x_n$ is bounded and increasing hence convergent. Consider the following inequality:
$$
x_n le y_n
$$

Since $x_n$ is monotonically decreasing we have that:
$$
x_n le x_{n+1}
$$



By $y_n$ is monotonically decreasing:
$$
y_{n+1} le y_{n}
$$



Expanding that further and using the fact $x_n le y_n$ we may obtain:
$$
x_1 le x_2 le cdots le x_{n-1} le x_{n} le x_{n+1} le y_{n+1} le y_n le y_{n-1} le cdots le y_2 le y_1
$$



Which a set of nested intervals. By the Nested intervals lemma and the fact that
$$
lim_{ntoinfty}(x_n - y_n) = 0
$$

we know that there is a single point $L$ which belongs to all of the intervals. By monotonicity of $x_n$ and $y_n$ this point appears to be the limit for both sequences. So by this $x_n$ and $y_n$ converge and:
$$
lim_{ntoinfty} x_n = lim_{ntoinfty} y_n =L
$$






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    I hope this is correct
    $endgroup$
    – roman
    Jan 10 at 14:53


















0












$begingroup$

Using a hint by @SmileyCraft we might show that $x_n$ is bounded and increasing hence convergent. Consider the following inequality:
$$
x_n le y_n
$$

Since $x_n$ is monotonically decreasing we have that:
$$
x_n le x_{n+1}
$$



By $y_n$ is monotonically decreasing:
$$
y_{n+1} le y_{n}
$$



Expanding that further and using the fact $x_n le y_n$ we may obtain:
$$
x_1 le x_2 le cdots le x_{n-1} le x_{n} le x_{n+1} le y_{n+1} le y_n le y_{n-1} le cdots le y_2 le y_1
$$



Which a set of nested intervals. By the Nested intervals lemma and the fact that
$$
lim_{ntoinfty}(x_n - y_n) = 0
$$

we know that there is a single point $L$ which belongs to all of the intervals. By monotonicity of $x_n$ and $y_n$ this point appears to be the limit for both sequences. So by this $x_n$ and $y_n$ converge and:
$$
lim_{ntoinfty} x_n = lim_{ntoinfty} y_n =L
$$






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    I hope this is correct
    $endgroup$
    – roman
    Jan 10 at 14:53
















0












0








0





$begingroup$

Using a hint by @SmileyCraft we might show that $x_n$ is bounded and increasing hence convergent. Consider the following inequality:
$$
x_n le y_n
$$

Since $x_n$ is monotonically decreasing we have that:
$$
x_n le x_{n+1}
$$



By $y_n$ is monotonically decreasing:
$$
y_{n+1} le y_{n}
$$



Expanding that further and using the fact $x_n le y_n$ we may obtain:
$$
x_1 le x_2 le cdots le x_{n-1} le x_{n} le x_{n+1} le y_{n+1} le y_n le y_{n-1} le cdots le y_2 le y_1
$$



Which a set of nested intervals. By the Nested intervals lemma and the fact that
$$
lim_{ntoinfty}(x_n - y_n) = 0
$$

we know that there is a single point $L$ which belongs to all of the intervals. By monotonicity of $x_n$ and $y_n$ this point appears to be the limit for both sequences. So by this $x_n$ and $y_n$ converge and:
$$
lim_{ntoinfty} x_n = lim_{ntoinfty} y_n =L
$$






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Using a hint by @SmileyCraft we might show that $x_n$ is bounded and increasing hence convergent. Consider the following inequality:
$$
x_n le y_n
$$

Since $x_n$ is monotonically decreasing we have that:
$$
x_n le x_{n+1}
$$



By $y_n$ is monotonically decreasing:
$$
y_{n+1} le y_{n}
$$



Expanding that further and using the fact $x_n le y_n$ we may obtain:
$$
x_1 le x_2 le cdots le x_{n-1} le x_{n} le x_{n+1} le y_{n+1} le y_n le y_{n-1} le cdots le y_2 le y_1
$$



Which a set of nested intervals. By the Nested intervals lemma and the fact that
$$
lim_{ntoinfty}(x_n - y_n) = 0
$$

we know that there is a single point $L$ which belongs to all of the intervals. By monotonicity of $x_n$ and $y_n$ this point appears to be the limit for both sequences. So by this $x_n$ and $y_n$ converge and:
$$
lim_{ntoinfty} x_n = lim_{ntoinfty} y_n =L
$$







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Jan 10 at 14:32

























answered Jan 10 at 14:26









romanroman

2,17321224




2,17321224












  • $begingroup$
    I hope this is correct
    $endgroup$
    – roman
    Jan 10 at 14:53




















  • $begingroup$
    I hope this is correct
    $endgroup$
    – roman
    Jan 10 at 14:53


















$begingroup$
I hope this is correct
$endgroup$
– roman
Jan 10 at 14:53






$begingroup$
I hope this is correct
$endgroup$
– roman
Jan 10 at 14:53




















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