Mixing
Do rivets on airframe need special sealant to be airtight on pressurized airliners?
$begingroup$
Do rivets on airframe need a dedicated sealant, e.g. epoxy, to be really airtight on a pressurized airliner, or is the expansion of the rivet shaft already sufficient?
As a side note, how are carbon fiber panels joined with aluminum or titanium panels?
aircraft-design aircraft-maintenance
asked Jan 20 at 16:18
Meatball PrincessMeatball Princess
885115
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Do rivets on airframe need a dedicated sealant, e.g. epoxy, to be really airtight on a pressurized airliner, or is the expansion of the rivet shaft already sufficient?
As a side note, how are carbon fiber panels joined with aluminum or titanium panels?
aircraft-design aircraft-maintenance
asked Jan 20 at 16:18
Meatball PrincessMeatball Princess
885115
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
Just FYI its best to ask one question per each posting - they're related questions, but different.
$endgroup$
– Criggie
Jan 20 at 21:49
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Do rivets on airframe need a dedicated sealant, e.g. epoxy, to be really airtight on a pressurized airliner, or is the expansion of the rivet shaft already sufficient?
As a side note, how are carbon fiber panels joined with aluminum or titanium panels?
aircraft-design aircraft-maintenance
asked Jan 20 at 16:18
Meatball PrincessMeatball Princess
885115
$endgroup$
Do rivets on airframe need a dedicated sealant, e.g. epoxy, to be really airtight on a pressurized airliner, or is the expansion of the rivet shaft already sufficient?
As a side note, how are carbon fiber panels joined with aluminum or titanium panels?
aircraft-design aircraft-maintenance
aircraft-design aircraft-maintenance
asked Jan 20 at 16:18
Meatball PrincessMeatball Princess
885115
asked Jan 20 at 16:18
Meatball PrincessMeatball Princess
885115
edited Jan 20 at 18:20
Meatball Princess
asked Jan 20 at 16:18
Meatball PrincessMeatball Princess
885115
asked Jan 20 at 16:18
Meatball PrincessMeatball Princess
885115
asked Jan 20 at 16:18
Meatball PrincessMeatball Princess
885115
885115
3
$begingroup$
Just FYI its best to ask one question per each posting - they're related questions, but different.
$endgroup$
– Criggie
Jan 20 at 21:49
add a comment |
3
$begingroup$
Just FYI its best to ask one question per each posting - they're related questions, but different.
$endgroup$
– Criggie
Jan 20 at 21:49
3
3
$begingroup$
Just FYI its best to ask one question per each posting - they're related questions, but different.
$endgroup$
– Criggie
Jan 20 at 21:49
$begingroup$
Just FYI its best to ask one question per each posting - they're related questions, but different.
$endgroup$
– Criggie
Jan 20 at 21:49
add a comment |
1 Answer
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I banged rivets on a production line long ago. The countersunk rivets used in the pressure hull depend on expansion of the shaft, but some rivets also have a slightly larger radius where the shank flares out into the head compared to a standard flush rivet, which forms a tighter seal when the rivet is set.
You don't actually apply sealant to the rivet itself. The sealant, which is a crazy-sticky goo stuff (not epoxy, it cures to a hard rubber consistency), gets everywhere when you are shooting rivets on the pressure hull because the faying surfaces (the overlapping metal to metal surfaces) are coated in sealant before assembly, which gets in the rivet holes (the sealant is a pain in many ways; it acts like a lubricant if it gets on the skinny end of the rivet and makes it easy to dump the rivet over when you buck it).
Carbon fiber panels are usually joined to metal with bolts or Hi Lites or similar rivets, with some sort of insert or doubler of stainless or titanium in the carbon to distribute the loads. Sandwich floor panels for example, typically use a titanimum insert bedded into the sandwich with epoxy resin, through which the fastener goes. Carbon against titanium is fine, but if joining carbon to aluminum, you MUST have an insulating material to separate them because they live at opposite ends of the galvanic scale. Carbon touching aluminum = lots of corrosive fun.
answered Jan 20 at 17:06
John KJohn K
20.4k12560
$endgroup$
10
$begingroup$
Back in the day when cigarette smoking was allowed on most airliners, the pressurized ones would leak until they had a few months of flying time on them. when torn down for repair and inspection it was discovered that the leaky seams in the pressure hull were caulked tight with condensed cigarette smoke...
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
Jan 20 at 19:22
3
$begingroup$
Yes basically the same as sealing your driveway cracks with tar. Cigarette tar played havoc with outflow valves, but the most damage was done to avionics.
$endgroup$
– John K
Jan 20 at 22:56
$begingroup$
were you an avionics tech? what planes did you service?
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
Jan 21 at 5:02
$begingroup$
No I was a hydromech engineering guy and also did some flying. CRJs. Retired now.
$endgroup$
– John K
Jan 21 at 5:32
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
I banged rivets on a production line long ago. The countersunk rivets used in the pressure hull depend on expansion of the shaft, but some rivets also have a slightly larger radius where the shank flares out into the head compared to a standard flush rivet, which forms a tighter seal when the rivet is set.
You don't actually apply sealant to the rivet itself. The sealant, which is a crazy-sticky goo stuff (not epoxy, it cures to a hard rubber consistency), gets everywhere when you are shooting rivets on the pressure hull because the faying surfaces (the overlapping metal to metal surfaces) are coated in sealant before assembly, which gets in the rivet holes (the sealant is a pain in many ways; it acts like a lubricant if it gets on the skinny end of the rivet and makes it easy to dump the rivet over when you buck it).
Carbon fiber panels are usually joined to metal with bolts or Hi Lites or similar rivets, with some sort of insert or doubler of stainless or titanium in the carbon to distribute the loads. Sandwich floor panels for example, typically use a titanimum insert bedded into the sandwich with epoxy resin, through which the fastener goes. Carbon against titanium is fine, but if joining carbon to aluminum, you MUST have an insulating material to separate them because they live at opposite ends of the galvanic scale. Carbon touching aluminum = lots of corrosive fun.
answered Jan 20 at 17:06
John KJohn K
20.4k12560
$endgroup$
10
$begingroup$
Back in the day when cigarette smoking was allowed on most airliners, the pressurized ones would leak until they had a few months of flying time on them. when torn down for repair and inspection it was discovered that the leaky seams in the pressure hull were caulked tight with condensed cigarette smoke...
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
Jan 20 at 19:22
3
$begingroup$
Yes basically the same as sealing your driveway cracks with tar. Cigarette tar played havoc with outflow valves, but the most damage was done to avionics.
$endgroup$
– John K
Jan 20 at 22:56
$begingroup$
were you an avionics tech? what planes did you service?
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
Jan 21 at 5:02
$begingroup$
No I was a hydromech engineering guy and also did some flying. CRJs. Retired now.
$endgroup$
– John K
Jan 21 at 5:32
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I banged rivets on a production line long ago. The countersunk rivets used in the pressure hull depend on expansion of the shaft, but some rivets also have a slightly larger radius where the shank flares out into the head compared to a standard flush rivet, which forms a tighter seal when the rivet is set.
You don't actually apply sealant to the rivet itself. The sealant, which is a crazy-sticky goo stuff (not epoxy, it cures to a hard rubber consistency), gets everywhere when you are shooting rivets on the pressure hull because the faying surfaces (the overlapping metal to metal surfaces) are coated in sealant before assembly, which gets in the rivet holes (the sealant is a pain in many ways; it acts like a lubricant if it gets on the skinny end of the rivet and makes it easy to dump the rivet over when you buck it).
Carbon fiber panels are usually joined to metal with bolts or Hi Lites or similar rivets, with some sort of insert or doubler of stainless or titanium in the carbon to distribute the loads. Sandwich floor panels for example, typically use a titanimum insert bedded into the sandwich with epoxy resin, through which the fastener goes. Carbon against titanium is fine, but if joining carbon to aluminum, you MUST have an insulating material to separate them because they live at opposite ends of the galvanic scale. Carbon touching aluminum = lots of corrosive fun.
answered Jan 20 at 17:06
John KJohn K
20.4k12560
$endgroup$
10
$begingroup$
Back in the day when cigarette smoking was allowed on most airliners, the pressurized ones would leak until they had a few months of flying time on them. when torn down for repair and inspection it was discovered that the leaky seams in the pressure hull were caulked tight with condensed cigarette smoke...
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
Jan 20 at 19:22
3
$begingroup$
Yes basically the same as sealing your driveway cracks with tar. Cigarette tar played havoc with outflow valves, but the most damage was done to avionics.
$endgroup$
– John K
Jan 20 at 22:56
$begingroup$
were you an avionics tech? what planes did you service?
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
Jan 21 at 5:02
$begingroup$
No I was a hydromech engineering guy and also did some flying. CRJs. Retired now.
$endgroup$
– John K
Jan 21 at 5:32
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I banged rivets on a production line long ago. The countersunk rivets used in the pressure hull depend on expansion of the shaft, but some rivets also have a slightly larger radius where the shank flares out into the head compared to a standard flush rivet, which forms a tighter seal when the rivet is set.
You don't actually apply sealant to the rivet itself. The sealant, which is a crazy-sticky goo stuff (not epoxy, it cures to a hard rubber consistency), gets everywhere when you are shooting rivets on the pressure hull because the faying surfaces (the overlapping metal to metal surfaces) are coated in sealant before assembly, which gets in the rivet holes (the sealant is a pain in many ways; it acts like a lubricant if it gets on the skinny end of the rivet and makes it easy to dump the rivet over when you buck it).
Carbon fiber panels are usually joined to metal with bolts or Hi Lites or similar rivets, with some sort of insert or doubler of stainless or titanium in the carbon to distribute the loads. Sandwich floor panels for example, typically use a titanimum insert bedded into the sandwich with epoxy resin, through which the fastener goes. Carbon against titanium is fine, but if joining carbon to aluminum, you MUST have an insulating material to separate them because they live at opposite ends of the galvanic scale. Carbon touching aluminum = lots of corrosive fun.
answered Jan 20 at 17:06
John KJohn K
20.4k12560
$endgroup$
I banged rivets on a production line long ago. The countersunk rivets used in the pressure hull depend on expansion of the shaft, but some rivets also have a slightly larger radius where the shank flares out into the head compared to a standard flush rivet, which forms a tighter seal when the rivet is set.
You don't actually apply sealant to the rivet itself. The sealant, which is a crazy-sticky goo stuff (not epoxy, it cures to a hard rubber consistency), gets everywhere when you are shooting rivets on the pressure hull because the faying surfaces (the overlapping metal to metal surfaces) are coated in sealant before assembly, which gets in the rivet holes (the sealant is a pain in many ways; it acts like a lubricant if it gets on the skinny end of the rivet and makes it easy to dump the rivet over when you buck it).
Carbon fiber panels are usually joined to metal with bolts or Hi Lites or similar rivets, with some sort of insert or doubler of stainless or titanium in the carbon to distribute the loads. Sandwich floor panels for example, typically use a titanimum insert bedded into the sandwich with epoxy resin, through which the fastener goes. Carbon against titanium is fine, but if joining carbon to aluminum, you MUST have an insulating material to separate them because they live at opposite ends of the galvanic scale. Carbon touching aluminum = lots of corrosive fun.
answered Jan 20 at 17:06
John KJohn K
20.4k12560
answered Jan 20 at 17:06
John KJohn K
20.4k12560
answered Jan 20 at 17:06
John KJohn K
20.4k12560
answered Jan 20 at 17:06
John KJohn K
20.4k12560
20.4k12560
10
$begingroup$
Back in the day when cigarette smoking was allowed on most airliners, the pressurized ones would leak until they had a few months of flying time on them. when torn down for repair and inspection it was discovered that the leaky seams in the pressure hull were caulked tight with condensed cigarette smoke...
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
Jan 20 at 19:22
3
$begingroup$
Yes basically the same as sealing your driveway cracks with tar. Cigarette tar played havoc with outflow valves, but the most damage was done to avionics.
$endgroup$
– John K
Jan 20 at 22:56
$begingroup$
were you an avionics tech? what planes did you service?
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
Jan 21 at 5:02
$begingroup$
No I was a hydromech engineering guy and also did some flying. CRJs. Retired now.
$endgroup$
– John K
Jan 21 at 5:32
add a comment |
10
$begingroup$
Back in the day when cigarette smoking was allowed on most airliners, the pressurized ones would leak until they had a few months of flying time on them. when torn down for repair and inspection it was discovered that the leaky seams in the pressure hull were caulked tight with condensed cigarette smoke...
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
Jan 20 at 19:22
3
$begingroup$
Yes basically the same as sealing your driveway cracks with tar. Cigarette tar played havoc with outflow valves, but the most damage was done to avionics.
$endgroup$
– John K
Jan 20 at 22:56
$begingroup$
were you an avionics tech? what planes did you service?
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
Jan 21 at 5:02
$begingroup$
No I was a hydromech engineering guy and also did some flying. CRJs. Retired now.
$endgroup$
– John K
Jan 21 at 5:32
10
10
$begingroup$
Back in the day when cigarette smoking was allowed on most airliners, the pressurized ones would leak until they had a few months of flying time on them. when torn down for repair and inspection it was discovered that the leaky seams in the pressure hull were caulked tight with condensed cigarette smoke...
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
Jan 20 at 19:22
$begingroup$
Back in the day when cigarette smoking was allowed on most airliners, the pressurized ones would leak until they had a few months of flying time on them. when torn down for repair and inspection it was discovered that the leaky seams in the pressure hull were caulked tight with condensed cigarette smoke...
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
Jan 20 at 19:22
3
3
$begingroup$
Yes basically the same as sealing your driveway cracks with tar. Cigarette tar played havoc with outflow valves, but the most damage was done to avionics.
$endgroup$
– John K
Jan 20 at 22:56
$begingroup$
Yes basically the same as sealing your driveway cracks with tar. Cigarette tar played havoc with outflow valves, but the most damage was done to avionics.
$endgroup$
– John K
Jan 20 at 22:56
$begingroup$
were you an avionics tech? what planes did you service?
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
Jan 21 at 5:02
$begingroup$
were you an avionics tech? what planes did you service?
$endgroup$
– niels nielsen
Jan 21 at 5:02
$begingroup$
No I was a hydromech engineering guy and also did some flying. CRJs. Retired now.
$endgroup$
– John K
Jan 21 at 5:32
$begingroup$
No I was a hydromech engineering guy and also did some flying. CRJs. Retired now.
$endgroup$
– John K
Jan 21 at 5:32
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Just FYI its best to ask one question per each posting - they're related questions, but different.
$endgroup$
– Criggie
Jan 20 at 21:49