Mixing
Is “Probecita/o” a “sloppy” way of saying “Pobrecita/a”?
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn has this line:
Po' little 'Lizabeth! po' little Johnny!
The Spanish translation of that is:
¡Probecita Lizabeth! ¡Probecito John!
Since the speaker says "po'" instead of "poor", is that why the translator transmogrifies "pobrecit" into "probecit", or is it a double typo?
That can hardly be, because a little later it reads:
¡Ay, probecita! ¡Que el Señor y todos los santos perdonen al pobre Jim!
...and later yet:
Poor things! to be left alone in the cold world so.
¡Pobrecitas! Quedarse así solas en este frío mundo...
Is it common for less-educated (or younger) ones to pronounce "pobrecita/a" as "probecita/o"? It is easier to say...
coloquialismos
edited Jan 31 at 8:57
walen
17.8k42391
asked Jan 31 at 2:43
B. Clay ShannonB. Clay Shannon
2,58622254
|
show 2 more comments
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn has this line:
Po' little 'Lizabeth! po' little Johnny!
The Spanish translation of that is:
¡Probecita Lizabeth! ¡Probecito John!
Since the speaker says "po'" instead of "poor", is that why the translator transmogrifies "pobrecit" into "probecit", or is it a double typo?
That can hardly be, because a little later it reads:
¡Ay, probecita! ¡Que el Señor y todos los santos perdonen al pobre Jim!
...and later yet:
Poor things! to be left alone in the cold world so.
¡Pobrecitas! Quedarse así solas en este frío mundo...
Is it common for less-educated (or younger) ones to pronounce "pobrecita/a" as "probecita/o"? It is easier to say...
coloquialismos
edited Jan 31 at 8:57
walen
17.8k42391
asked Jan 31 at 2:43
B. Clay ShannonB. Clay Shannon
2,58622254
4
Do you know where the translation was done? probe is common in Galician and standard in Asturian (having undergone a process of metathesis to shift the R), and those are typically more rural areas than elsewhere in Spain. If it's a Spain translation, that would make sense (although I've not personally heard in Castilian). No idea if probe is heard in Latin America, though.
– guifa
Jan 31 at 4:29
4
Great, now I'm going to have this song stuck in my head all day long. :-)
– Charlie
Jan 31 at 6:26
1
@VinkoVrsalovic But the relevant part is that it's not a typo. It just one way of translating the effect that is already present in the English original version. What term would you use?
– RubioRic
Jan 31 at 12:11
1
Visit Argentina sometime, and you'll hear people say "pibicito/a".
– Mason Wheeler
Jan 31 at 15:57
1
Anyway it is just a local misuse, I've heard people of low education say that in Barcelona, but never from low education people in Chile, Perú or Ecuador. I mean probe.
– Andrés Chandía
Feb 6 at 10:50
|
show 2 more comments
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn has this line:
Po' little 'Lizabeth! po' little Johnny!
The Spanish translation of that is:
¡Probecita Lizabeth! ¡Probecito John!
Since the speaker says "po'" instead of "poor", is that why the translator transmogrifies "pobrecit" into "probecit", or is it a double typo?
That can hardly be, because a little later it reads:
¡Ay, probecita! ¡Que el Señor y todos los santos perdonen al pobre Jim!
...and later yet:
Poor things! to be left alone in the cold world so.
¡Pobrecitas! Quedarse así solas en este frío mundo...
Is it common for less-educated (or younger) ones to pronounce "pobrecita/a" as "probecita/o"? It is easier to say...
coloquialismos
edited Jan 31 at 8:57
walen
17.8k42391
asked Jan 31 at 2:43
B. Clay ShannonB. Clay Shannon
2,58622254
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn has this line:
Po' little 'Lizabeth! po' little Johnny!
The Spanish translation of that is:
¡Probecita Lizabeth! ¡Probecito John!
Since the speaker says "po'" instead of "poor", is that why the translator transmogrifies "pobrecit" into "probecit", or is it a double typo?
That can hardly be, because a little later it reads:
¡Ay, probecita! ¡Que el Señor y todos los santos perdonen al pobre Jim!
...and later yet:
Poor things! to be left alone in the cold world so.
¡Pobrecitas! Quedarse así solas en este frío mundo...
Is it common for less-educated (or younger) ones to pronounce "pobrecita/a" as "probecita/o"? It is easier to say...
coloquialismos
coloquialismos
edited Jan 31 at 8:57
walen
17.8k42391
asked Jan 31 at 2:43
B. Clay ShannonB. Clay Shannon
2,58622254
edited Jan 31 at 8:57
walen
17.8k42391
asked Jan 31 at 2:43
B. Clay ShannonB. Clay Shannon
2,58622254
edited Jan 31 at 8:57
walen
17.8k42391
edited Jan 31 at 8:57
walen
17.8k42391
edited Jan 31 at 8:57
walen
17.8k42391
17.8k42391
asked Jan 31 at 2:43
B. Clay ShannonB. Clay Shannon
2,58622254
asked Jan 31 at 2:43
B. Clay ShannonB. Clay Shannon
2,58622254
asked Jan 31 at 2:43
B. Clay ShannonB. Clay Shannon
2,58622254
2,58622254
4
Do you know where the translation was done? probe is common in Galician and standard in Asturian (having undergone a process of metathesis to shift the R), and those are typically more rural areas than elsewhere in Spain. If it's a Spain translation, that would make sense (although I've not personally heard in Castilian). No idea if probe is heard in Latin America, though.
– guifa
Jan 31 at 4:29
4
Great, now I'm going to have this song stuck in my head all day long. :-)
– Charlie
Jan 31 at 6:26
1
@VinkoVrsalovic But the relevant part is that it's not a typo. It just one way of translating the effect that is already present in the English original version. What term would you use?
– RubioRic
Jan 31 at 12:11
1
Visit Argentina sometime, and you'll hear people say "pibicito/a".
– Mason Wheeler
Jan 31 at 15:57
1
Anyway it is just a local misuse, I've heard people of low education say that in Barcelona, but never from low education people in Chile, Perú or Ecuador. I mean probe.
– Andrés Chandía
Feb 6 at 10:50
|
show 2 more comments
4
Do you know where the translation was done? probe is common in Galician and standard in Asturian (having undergone a process of metathesis to shift the R), and those are typically more rural areas than elsewhere in Spain. If it's a Spain translation, that would make sense (although I've not personally heard in Castilian). No idea if probe is heard in Latin America, though.
– guifa
Jan 31 at 4:29
4
Great, now I'm going to have this song stuck in my head all day long. :-)
– Charlie
Jan 31 at 6:26
1
@VinkoVrsalovic But the relevant part is that it's not a typo. It just one way of translating the effect that is already present in the English original version. What term would you use?
– RubioRic
Jan 31 at 12:11
1
Visit Argentina sometime, and you'll hear people say "pibicito/a".
– Mason Wheeler
Jan 31 at 15:57
1
Anyway it is just a local misuse, I've heard people of low education say that in Barcelona, but never from low education people in Chile, Perú or Ecuador. I mean probe.
– Andrés Chandía
Feb 6 at 10:50
4
4
Do you know where the translation was done? probe is common in Galician and standard in Asturian (having undergone a process of metathesis to shift the R), and those are typically more rural areas than elsewhere in Spain. If it's a Spain translation, that would make sense (although I've not personally heard in Castilian). No idea if probe is heard in Latin America, though.
– guifa
Jan 31 at 4:29
Do you know where the translation was done? probe is common in Galician and standard in Asturian (having undergone a process of metathesis to shift the R), and those are typically more rural areas than elsewhere in Spain. If it's a Spain translation, that would make sense (although I've not personally heard in Castilian). No idea if probe is heard in Latin America, though.
– guifa
Jan 31 at 4:29
4
4
Great, now I'm going to have this song stuck in my head all day long. :-)
– Charlie
Jan 31 at 6:26
Great, now I'm going to have this song stuck in my head all day long. :-)
– Charlie
Jan 31 at 6:26
1
1
@VinkoVrsalovic But the relevant part is that it's not a typo. It just one way of translating the effect that is already present in the English original version. What term would you use?
– RubioRic
Jan 31 at 12:11
@VinkoVrsalovic But the relevant part is that it's not a typo. It just one way of translating the effect that is already present in the English original version. What term would you use?
– RubioRic
Jan 31 at 12:11
1
1
Visit Argentina sometime, and you'll hear people say "pibicito/a".
– Mason Wheeler
Jan 31 at 15:57
Visit Argentina sometime, and you'll hear people say "pibicito/a".
– Mason Wheeler
Jan 31 at 15:57
1
1
Anyway it is just a local misuse, I've heard people of low education say that in Barcelona, but never from low education people in Chile, Perú or Ecuador. I mean probe.
– Andrés Chandía
Feb 6 at 10:50
Anyway it is just a local misuse, I've heard people of low education say that in Barcelona, but never from low education people in Chile, Perú or Ecuador. I mean probe.
– Andrés Chandía
Feb 6 at 10:50
|
show 2 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
Probe aparece en el DLE, pero solo en las ediciones de 1803 y de 1817, con la definición:
PROBE
adj. ant. Lo mismo que POBRE
Por otro lado en el CORDE probe aparece en numerosas ocasiones, desde por ejemplo:
... que este Núñez es un hortelano mío é lo que tiene yo se lo he dado, é no había para que pedirle nada prestado, que es un probe hombre é no tiene que prestar ...
[Anónimo, 1548, Testimonio original de información para el cargo y descargo de Pedro de Valdivia]
o
... han servido para cocer el arroz de la probe gente en medio del monte ...
[Fernández de Moratín, 1823, Cartas de 1823 (Epistolario)]
o
Naciste probe, y el pobre tiene sempre por qué sufrir ...
[Insúa, Alberto, 1928, En familia (Lecturas, noviembre de 1928)]
hasta
er que quisiera aprender
para qué sirven los hombres,
que ruegue a Dios le permita
vorvé a naser; pero probe.
[Anónimo, 1966, Canciones españolas]
answered Jan 31 at 5:56
Potter-PirbrightPotter-Pirbright
220119
2
Still probe is used in Asturian, a Spanish dialect spoken in north part of Spain.
– Ra_
Jan 31 at 14:52
2
@Ra_ Note that Asturian is, alongisde Mirandese, a language in the Leonese branch, not just a dialect (unless you're referring to the Castilian dialect spoken in Asturias, which in my experience only uses pobre)
– guifa
Jan 31 at 17:05
add a comment |
Is it common for less-educated (or younger) ones to pronounce
"pobrecita/a" as "probecita/o"?
Yes, it is. In the late nineties there was even a summer hit called "Miguel Canales (Probe Miguel)" by Triana Pura.
Ay que le estará pasando al "probe" Miguel
Que hace mucho tiempo que
no sale
Que le estará pasando al "probe" Miguel
Que hace mucho tiempo
que no sale
English translation
What's happening to po' Miguel?
It's been quite a while since he came
out last time
What's happening to po' Miguel?
It's been quite a while since he
came out last time
You can watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8OJX_IaE44
edited Jan 31 at 8:51
walen
17.8k42391
answered Jan 31 at 7:24
RubioRicRubioRic
1,882220
1
In fact in Spanish you can get lots of examples of letter swapping, some of which become the norm: latin crusta gave the spanish costra, the latin parabola gave the spanish palabra, miraculum gave milagro, crocodilus gave cocodrilo etc.
– enxaneta
Jan 31 at 14:35
2
@enxaneta You're right but at some point of time those spurious words became the norm. That's not the case with "probe" yet.
– RubioRic
Jan 31 at 15:50
Have you read the answer of @RosieMBanks?
– enxaneta
Jan 31 at 15:55
1
@enxaneta Yes, of course. I've upvoted it.
– RubioRic
Jan 31 at 16:45
add a comment |
In the thread Cambio de letras Probe/Pobre; Tadre/Tarde you can see that people agree that this is definitely a vulgarism, and that is somewhat common
probe en lugar de pobre o Grabiel por Gabriel es algo que se escucha con relativa frecuencia en Andalucía
The book Modismos comparativos de Andalucía indicates that this is a case of metathesis (in grammar, the transposition of sounds or letters in a word), although the book adds no further details about how pervasive this particular example would be.
The (google)book Noticia sobre un libro que ha publicado el Sr. D. Francisco Silvela indicates that probe is in fact a vulgarism, corruption of "pobre", but highlights the interesting note that pobre comes from latin pauper, and that you have probe in some other languages like Galician and Portuguese. The book claims that due to this it might be easier to hear probe instead of pobre in the west of Spain (in communities that are closer to Portugal or Galicia).
As an answer to an existing question explains in ¿Por qué no decimos “crocodilo”?, sometimes these examples of metathesis are the ones that prosper, instead of the regular form. Nevertheless, probe is a vulgarism that seems in fact to be the perfect fit for the original "Po' little 'Lizabeth!"
answered Jan 31 at 17:05
Diego♦Diego
36.1k1070148
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Probe aparece en el DLE, pero solo en las ediciones de 1803 y de 1817, con la definición:
PROBE
adj. ant. Lo mismo que POBRE
Por otro lado en el CORDE probe aparece en numerosas ocasiones, desde por ejemplo:
... que este Núñez es un hortelano mío é lo que tiene yo se lo he dado, é no había para que pedirle nada prestado, que es un probe hombre é no tiene que prestar ...
[Anónimo, 1548, Testimonio original de información para el cargo y descargo de Pedro de Valdivia]
o
... han servido para cocer el arroz de la probe gente en medio del monte ...
[Fernández de Moratín, 1823, Cartas de 1823 (Epistolario)]
o
Naciste probe, y el pobre tiene sempre por qué sufrir ...
[Insúa, Alberto, 1928, En familia (Lecturas, noviembre de 1928)]
hasta
er que quisiera aprender
para qué sirven los hombres,
que ruegue a Dios le permita
vorvé a naser; pero probe.
[Anónimo, 1966, Canciones españolas]
answered Jan 31 at 5:56
Potter-PirbrightPotter-Pirbright
220119
2
Still probe is used in Asturian, a Spanish dialect spoken in north part of Spain.
– Ra_
Jan 31 at 14:52
2
@Ra_ Note that Asturian is, alongisde Mirandese, a language in the Leonese branch, not just a dialect (unless you're referring to the Castilian dialect spoken in Asturias, which in my experience only uses pobre)
– guifa
Jan 31 at 17:05
add a comment |
Probe aparece en el DLE, pero solo en las ediciones de 1803 y de 1817, con la definición:
PROBE
adj. ant. Lo mismo que POBRE
Por otro lado en el CORDE probe aparece en numerosas ocasiones, desde por ejemplo:
... que este Núñez es un hortelano mío é lo que tiene yo se lo he dado, é no había para que pedirle nada prestado, que es un probe hombre é no tiene que prestar ...
[Anónimo, 1548, Testimonio original de información para el cargo y descargo de Pedro de Valdivia]
o
... han servido para cocer el arroz de la probe gente en medio del monte ...
[Fernández de Moratín, 1823, Cartas de 1823 (Epistolario)]
o
Naciste probe, y el pobre tiene sempre por qué sufrir ...
[Insúa, Alberto, 1928, En familia (Lecturas, noviembre de 1928)]
hasta
er que quisiera aprender
para qué sirven los hombres,
que ruegue a Dios le permita
vorvé a naser; pero probe.
[Anónimo, 1966, Canciones españolas]
answered Jan 31 at 5:56
Potter-PirbrightPotter-Pirbright
220119
2
Still probe is used in Asturian, a Spanish dialect spoken in north part of Spain.
– Ra_
Jan 31 at 14:52
2
@Ra_ Note that Asturian is, alongisde Mirandese, a language in the Leonese branch, not just a dialect (unless you're referring to the Castilian dialect spoken in Asturias, which in my experience only uses pobre)
– guifa
Jan 31 at 17:05
add a comment |
Probe aparece en el DLE, pero solo en las ediciones de 1803 y de 1817, con la definición:
PROBE
adj. ant. Lo mismo que POBRE
Por otro lado en el CORDE probe aparece en numerosas ocasiones, desde por ejemplo:
... que este Núñez es un hortelano mío é lo que tiene yo se lo he dado, é no había para que pedirle nada prestado, que es un probe hombre é no tiene que prestar ...
[Anónimo, 1548, Testimonio original de información para el cargo y descargo de Pedro de Valdivia]
o
... han servido para cocer el arroz de la probe gente en medio del monte ...
[Fernández de Moratín, 1823, Cartas de 1823 (Epistolario)]
o
Naciste probe, y el pobre tiene sempre por qué sufrir ...
[Insúa, Alberto, 1928, En familia (Lecturas, noviembre de 1928)]
hasta
er que quisiera aprender
para qué sirven los hombres,
que ruegue a Dios le permita
vorvé a naser; pero probe.
[Anónimo, 1966, Canciones españolas]
answered Jan 31 at 5:56
Potter-PirbrightPotter-Pirbright
220119
Probe aparece en el DLE, pero solo en las ediciones de 1803 y de 1817, con la definición:
PROBE
adj. ant. Lo mismo que POBRE
Por otro lado en el CORDE probe aparece en numerosas ocasiones, desde por ejemplo:
... que este Núñez es un hortelano mío é lo que tiene yo se lo he dado, é no había para que pedirle nada prestado, que es un probe hombre é no tiene que prestar ...
[Anónimo, 1548, Testimonio original de información para el cargo y descargo de Pedro de Valdivia]
o
... han servido para cocer el arroz de la probe gente en medio del monte ...
[Fernández de Moratín, 1823, Cartas de 1823 (Epistolario)]
o
Naciste probe, y el pobre tiene sempre por qué sufrir ...
[Insúa, Alberto, 1928, En familia (Lecturas, noviembre de 1928)]
hasta
er que quisiera aprender
para qué sirven los hombres,
que ruegue a Dios le permita
vorvé a naser; pero probe.
[Anónimo, 1966, Canciones españolas]
answered Jan 31 at 5:56
Potter-PirbrightPotter-Pirbright
220119
answered Jan 31 at 5:56
Potter-PirbrightPotter-Pirbright
220119
answered Jan 31 at 5:56
Potter-PirbrightPotter-Pirbright
220119
answered Jan 31 at 5:56
Potter-PirbrightPotter-Pirbright
220119
220119
2
Still probe is used in Asturian, a Spanish dialect spoken in north part of Spain.
– Ra_
Jan 31 at 14:52
2
@Ra_ Note that Asturian is, alongisde Mirandese, a language in the Leonese branch, not just a dialect (unless you're referring to the Castilian dialect spoken in Asturias, which in my experience only uses pobre)
– guifa
Jan 31 at 17:05
add a comment |
2
Still probe is used in Asturian, a Spanish dialect spoken in north part of Spain.
– Ra_
Jan 31 at 14:52
2
@Ra_ Note that Asturian is, alongisde Mirandese, a language in the Leonese branch, not just a dialect (unless you're referring to the Castilian dialect spoken in Asturias, which in my experience only uses pobre)
– guifa
Jan 31 at 17:05
2
2
Still probe is used in Asturian, a Spanish dialect spoken in north part of Spain.
– Ra_
Jan 31 at 14:52
Still probe is used in Asturian, a Spanish dialect spoken in north part of Spain.
– Ra_
Jan 31 at 14:52
2
2
@Ra_ Note that Asturian is, alongisde Mirandese, a language in the Leonese branch, not just a dialect (unless you're referring to the Castilian dialect spoken in Asturias, which in my experience only uses pobre)
– guifa
Jan 31 at 17:05
@Ra_ Note that Asturian is, alongisde Mirandese, a language in the Leonese branch, not just a dialect (unless you're referring to the Castilian dialect spoken in Asturias, which in my experience only uses pobre)
– guifa
Jan 31 at 17:05
add a comment |
Is it common for less-educated (or younger) ones to pronounce
"pobrecita/a" as "probecita/o"?
Yes, it is. In the late nineties there was even a summer hit called "Miguel Canales (Probe Miguel)" by Triana Pura.
Ay que le estará pasando al "probe" Miguel
Que hace mucho tiempo que
no sale
Que le estará pasando al "probe" Miguel
Que hace mucho tiempo
que no sale
English translation
What's happening to po' Miguel?
It's been quite a while since he came
out last time
What's happening to po' Miguel?
It's been quite a while since he
came out last time
You can watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8OJX_IaE44
edited Jan 31 at 8:51
walen
17.8k42391
answered Jan 31 at 7:24
RubioRicRubioRic
1,882220
1
In fact in Spanish you can get lots of examples of letter swapping, some of which become the norm: latin crusta gave the spanish costra, the latin parabola gave the spanish palabra, miraculum gave milagro, crocodilus gave cocodrilo etc.
– enxaneta
Jan 31 at 14:35
2
@enxaneta You're right but at some point of time those spurious words became the norm. That's not the case with "probe" yet.
– RubioRic
Jan 31 at 15:50
Have you read the answer of @RosieMBanks?
– enxaneta
Jan 31 at 15:55
1
@enxaneta Yes, of course. I've upvoted it.
– RubioRic
Jan 31 at 16:45
add a comment |
Is it common for less-educated (or younger) ones to pronounce
"pobrecita/a" as "probecita/o"?
Yes, it is. In the late nineties there was even a summer hit called "Miguel Canales (Probe Miguel)" by Triana Pura.
Ay que le estará pasando al "probe" Miguel
Que hace mucho tiempo que
no sale
Que le estará pasando al "probe" Miguel
Que hace mucho tiempo
que no sale
English translation
What's happening to po' Miguel?
It's been quite a while since he came
out last time
What's happening to po' Miguel?
It's been quite a while since he
came out last time
You can watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8OJX_IaE44
edited Jan 31 at 8:51
walen
17.8k42391
answered Jan 31 at 7:24
RubioRicRubioRic
1,882220
1
In fact in Spanish you can get lots of examples of letter swapping, some of which become the norm: latin crusta gave the spanish costra, the latin parabola gave the spanish palabra, miraculum gave milagro, crocodilus gave cocodrilo etc.
– enxaneta
Jan 31 at 14:35
2
@enxaneta You're right but at some point of time those spurious words became the norm. That's not the case with "probe" yet.
– RubioRic
Jan 31 at 15:50
Have you read the answer of @RosieMBanks?
– enxaneta
Jan 31 at 15:55
1
@enxaneta Yes, of course. I've upvoted it.
– RubioRic
Jan 31 at 16:45
add a comment |
Is it common for less-educated (or younger) ones to pronounce
"pobrecita/a" as "probecita/o"?
Yes, it is. In the late nineties there was even a summer hit called "Miguel Canales (Probe Miguel)" by Triana Pura.
Ay que le estará pasando al "probe" Miguel
Que hace mucho tiempo que
no sale
Que le estará pasando al "probe" Miguel
Que hace mucho tiempo
que no sale
English translation
What's happening to po' Miguel?
It's been quite a while since he came
out last time
What's happening to po' Miguel?
It's been quite a while since he
came out last time
You can watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8OJX_IaE44
edited Jan 31 at 8:51
walen
17.8k42391
answered Jan 31 at 7:24
RubioRicRubioRic
1,882220
Is it common for less-educated (or younger) ones to pronounce
"pobrecita/a" as "probecita/o"?
Yes, it is. In the late nineties there was even a summer hit called "Miguel Canales (Probe Miguel)" by Triana Pura.
Ay que le estará pasando al "probe" Miguel
Que hace mucho tiempo que
no sale
Que le estará pasando al "probe" Miguel
Que hace mucho tiempo
que no sale
English translation
What's happening to po' Miguel?
It's been quite a while since he came
out last time
What's happening to po' Miguel?
It's been quite a while since he
came out last time
You can watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8OJX_IaE44
edited Jan 31 at 8:51
walen
17.8k42391
answered Jan 31 at 7:24
RubioRicRubioRic
1,882220
edited Jan 31 at 8:51
walen
17.8k42391
edited Jan 31 at 8:51
walen
17.8k42391
edited Jan 31 at 8:51
walen
17.8k42391
17.8k42391
answered Jan 31 at 7:24
RubioRicRubioRic
1,882220
answered Jan 31 at 7:24
RubioRicRubioRic
1,882220
answered Jan 31 at 7:24
RubioRicRubioRic
1,882220
1,882220
1
In fact in Spanish you can get lots of examples of letter swapping, some of which become the norm: latin crusta gave the spanish costra, the latin parabola gave the spanish palabra, miraculum gave milagro, crocodilus gave cocodrilo etc.
– enxaneta
Jan 31 at 14:35
2
@enxaneta You're right but at some point of time those spurious words became the norm. That's not the case with "probe" yet.
– RubioRic
Jan 31 at 15:50
Have you read the answer of @RosieMBanks?
– enxaneta
Jan 31 at 15:55
1
@enxaneta Yes, of course. I've upvoted it.
– RubioRic
Jan 31 at 16:45
add a comment |
1
In fact in Spanish you can get lots of examples of letter swapping, some of which become the norm: latin crusta gave the spanish costra, the latin parabola gave the spanish palabra, miraculum gave milagro, crocodilus gave cocodrilo etc.
– enxaneta
Jan 31 at 14:35
2
@enxaneta You're right but at some point of time those spurious words became the norm. That's not the case with "probe" yet.
– RubioRic
Jan 31 at 15:50
Have you read the answer of @RosieMBanks?
– enxaneta
Jan 31 at 15:55
1
@enxaneta Yes, of course. I've upvoted it.
– RubioRic
Jan 31 at 16:45
1
1
In fact in Spanish you can get lots of examples of letter swapping, some of which become the norm: latin crusta gave the spanish costra, the latin parabola gave the spanish palabra, miraculum gave milagro, crocodilus gave cocodrilo etc.
– enxaneta
Jan 31 at 14:35
In fact in Spanish you can get lots of examples of letter swapping, some of which become the norm: latin crusta gave the spanish costra, the latin parabola gave the spanish palabra, miraculum gave milagro, crocodilus gave cocodrilo etc.
– enxaneta
Jan 31 at 14:35
2
2
@enxaneta You're right but at some point of time those spurious words became the norm. That's not the case with "probe" yet.
– RubioRic
Jan 31 at 15:50
@enxaneta You're right but at some point of time those spurious words became the norm. That's not the case with "probe" yet.
– RubioRic
Jan 31 at 15:50
Have you read the answer of @RosieMBanks?
– enxaneta
Jan 31 at 15:55
Have you read the answer of @RosieMBanks?
– enxaneta
Jan 31 at 15:55
1
1
@enxaneta Yes, of course. I've upvoted it.
– RubioRic
Jan 31 at 16:45
@enxaneta Yes, of course. I've upvoted it.
– RubioRic
Jan 31 at 16:45
add a comment |
In the thread Cambio de letras Probe/Pobre; Tadre/Tarde you can see that people agree that this is definitely a vulgarism, and that is somewhat common
probe en lugar de pobre o Grabiel por Gabriel es algo que se escucha con relativa frecuencia en Andalucía
The book Modismos comparativos de Andalucía indicates that this is a case of metathesis (in grammar, the transposition of sounds or letters in a word), although the book adds no further details about how pervasive this particular example would be.
The (google)book Noticia sobre un libro que ha publicado el Sr. D. Francisco Silvela indicates that probe is in fact a vulgarism, corruption of "pobre", but highlights the interesting note that pobre comes from latin pauper, and that you have probe in some other languages like Galician and Portuguese. The book claims that due to this it might be easier to hear probe instead of pobre in the west of Spain (in communities that are closer to Portugal or Galicia).
As an answer to an existing question explains in ¿Por qué no decimos “crocodilo”?, sometimes these examples of metathesis are the ones that prosper, instead of the regular form. Nevertheless, probe is a vulgarism that seems in fact to be the perfect fit for the original "Po' little 'Lizabeth!"
answered Jan 31 at 17:05
Diego♦Diego
36.1k1070148
add a comment |
In the thread Cambio de letras Probe/Pobre; Tadre/Tarde you can see that people agree that this is definitely a vulgarism, and that is somewhat common
probe en lugar de pobre o Grabiel por Gabriel es algo que se escucha con relativa frecuencia en Andalucía
The book Modismos comparativos de Andalucía indicates that this is a case of metathesis (in grammar, the transposition of sounds or letters in a word), although the book adds no further details about how pervasive this particular example would be.
The (google)book Noticia sobre un libro que ha publicado el Sr. D. Francisco Silvela indicates that probe is in fact a vulgarism, corruption of "pobre", but highlights the interesting note that pobre comes from latin pauper, and that you have probe in some other languages like Galician and Portuguese. The book claims that due to this it might be easier to hear probe instead of pobre in the west of Spain (in communities that are closer to Portugal or Galicia).
As an answer to an existing question explains in ¿Por qué no decimos “crocodilo”?, sometimes these examples of metathesis are the ones that prosper, instead of the regular form. Nevertheless, probe is a vulgarism that seems in fact to be the perfect fit for the original "Po' little 'Lizabeth!"
answered Jan 31 at 17:05
Diego♦Diego
36.1k1070148
add a comment |
In the thread Cambio de letras Probe/Pobre; Tadre/Tarde you can see that people agree that this is definitely a vulgarism, and that is somewhat common
probe en lugar de pobre o Grabiel por Gabriel es algo que se escucha con relativa frecuencia en Andalucía
The book Modismos comparativos de Andalucía indicates that this is a case of metathesis (in grammar, the transposition of sounds or letters in a word), although the book adds no further details about how pervasive this particular example would be.
The (google)book Noticia sobre un libro que ha publicado el Sr. D. Francisco Silvela indicates that probe is in fact a vulgarism, corruption of "pobre", but highlights the interesting note that pobre comes from latin pauper, and that you have probe in some other languages like Galician and Portuguese. The book claims that due to this it might be easier to hear probe instead of pobre in the west of Spain (in communities that are closer to Portugal or Galicia).
As an answer to an existing question explains in ¿Por qué no decimos “crocodilo”?, sometimes these examples of metathesis are the ones that prosper, instead of the regular form. Nevertheless, probe is a vulgarism that seems in fact to be the perfect fit for the original "Po' little 'Lizabeth!"
answered Jan 31 at 17:05
Diego♦Diego
36.1k1070148
In the thread Cambio de letras Probe/Pobre; Tadre/Tarde you can see that people agree that this is definitely a vulgarism, and that is somewhat common
probe en lugar de pobre o Grabiel por Gabriel es algo que se escucha con relativa frecuencia en Andalucía
The book Modismos comparativos de Andalucía indicates that this is a case of metathesis (in grammar, the transposition of sounds or letters in a word), although the book adds no further details about how pervasive this particular example would be.
The (google)book Noticia sobre un libro que ha publicado el Sr. D. Francisco Silvela indicates that probe is in fact a vulgarism, corruption of "pobre", but highlights the interesting note that pobre comes from latin pauper, and that you have probe in some other languages like Galician and Portuguese. The book claims that due to this it might be easier to hear probe instead of pobre in the west of Spain (in communities that are closer to Portugal or Galicia).
As an answer to an existing question explains in ¿Por qué no decimos “crocodilo”?, sometimes these examples of metathesis are the ones that prosper, instead of the regular form. Nevertheless, probe is a vulgarism that seems in fact to be the perfect fit for the original "Po' little 'Lizabeth!"
answered Jan 31 at 17:05
Diego♦Diego
36.1k1070148
edited Jan 31 at 20:49
answered Jan 31 at 17:05
Diego♦Diego
36.1k1070148
answered Jan 31 at 17:05
Diego♦Diego
36.1k1070148
answered Jan 31 at 17:05
Diego♦Diego
36.1k1070148
36.1k1070148
add a comment |
add a comment |
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4
Do you know where the translation was done? probe is common in Galician and standard in Asturian (having undergone a process of metathesis to shift the R), and those are typically more rural areas than elsewhere in Spain. If it's a Spain translation, that would make sense (although I've not personally heard in Castilian). No idea if probe is heard in Latin America, though.
– guifa
Jan 31 at 4:29
4
Great, now I'm going to have this song stuck in my head all day long. :-)
– Charlie
Jan 31 at 6:26
1
@VinkoVrsalovic But the relevant part is that it's not a typo. It just one way of translating the effect that is already present in the English original version. What term would you use?
– RubioRic
Jan 31 at 12:11
1
Visit Argentina sometime, and you'll hear people say "pibicito/a".
– Mason Wheeler
Jan 31 at 15:57
1
Anyway it is just a local misuse, I've heard people of low education say that in Barcelona, but never from low education people in Chile, Perú or Ecuador. I mean probe.
– Andrés Chandía
Feb 6 at 10:50