How to prove that compact subspaces of the Sorgenfrey line are countable?
$begingroup$
How to prove that every compact subspace of the Sorgenfrey line is countable?
general-topology compactness
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
How to prove that every compact subspace of the Sorgenfrey line is countable?
general-topology compactness
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
How to prove that every compact subspace of the Sorgenfrey line is countable?
general-topology compactness
$endgroup$
How to prove that every compact subspace of the Sorgenfrey line is countable?
general-topology compactness
general-topology compactness
edited Feb 10 '16 at 9:30


Tomek Kania
12.3k11945
12.3k11945
asked Jul 12 '12 at 11:48
PaulPaul
14k42465
14k42465
add a comment |
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Let $C$ be a compact subset of the Sorgenfrey line (so $X = mathbb{R}$ with a base of open
sets of the form $[a,b)$, for $a < b$). The usual (order) topology on $mathbb{R}$ is coarser (as all open intervals $(a,b)$ can be written as unions of Sorgenfrey-open sets $[a+frac{1}{n}, b)$ for large enough $n$, so are Sorgenfrey-open as well) so $C$ is compact in the usual topology as well. This means in particular that $C$ is closed and bounded in the usual topology on $mathbb{R}$.
Suppose that $x_0 < x_1 < x_2 < ldots $ is a strictly increasing sequence in $C$, and let $c = sup {x_n: n =0,1,ldots }$, which exists and lies in $C$ by the above remarks. Also let $m = min(C)$, which also exists by the same.
Then the sets $[c,rightarrow)$ and $[m, x_0)$ (if non-empty), $[x_n, x_{n+1})$, for $n ge 0$ form a disjoint countable cover of $C$, so we cannot omit a single member of it (we need $[x_n, x_{n+1})$ to cover $x_n$, e.g.), so there is no finite subcover of it that still covers $C$.
This contradicts that $C$ is compact.
We conclude that $C$ has no infinite strictly increasing sequences. Or otherwise put: $C$ in the reverse order (from the standard one) is well-ordered.
And so we have shown that every compact subset of $C$ corresponds to a well-ordered subset of $mathbb{R}$ (by reversing the order, and note that the reals are order isomorphic to its reverse order). And all well-ordered subsets of $mathbb{R}$ are (at most) countable (this follows from several arguments, including one using second countability, e.g.).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
why $C$ compact having no infinite strictly increasing sequences is the same as $C$ in the reverse order being well-ordered?
$endgroup$
– creepyrodent
Nov 6 '18 at 14:08
1
$begingroup$
@dude3221 A strict linearly ordered set $(X,<)$ is well-ordered (every non-empty subset has a minimum) iff there are no infinite decreasing sequences under $<$. This is classical.
$endgroup$
– Henno Brandsma
Nov 6 '18 at 14:11
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hint: any uncountable set of real numbers contains a strictly increasing infinite sequence.
Hint 2 (added later): show that if a subspace $X$ of the Sorgenfrey line contains a strictly increasing infinite sequence, then $X$ has an open cover with no finite subcover.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
@John But Collin's right.
$endgroup$
– martini
Jul 12 '12 at 12:59
1
$begingroup$
You should try it yourself, for starters. And in the classical topology of $mathbb R$ such sequences can be convergent in contrast to the Sorgenfrey case, where such sequences can't have a convergent subsequence ...
$endgroup$
– martini
Jul 12 '12 at 13:06
$begingroup$
@John: see my second hint above.
$endgroup$
– Colin McQuillan
Jul 12 '12 at 13:44
$begingroup$
The Sorgenfrey line is totally disconnected. One can prove that an infinite totally disconnected space doesn't have uncountable compact subsets, even when it's not discret.
$endgroup$
– Temitope.A
Jul 20 '12 at 13:08
$begingroup$
@Temitope.A Nonsense. The Cantor set is uncountable, totally disconnected and compact.
$endgroup$
– Henno Brandsma
Jan 28 at 9:14
add a comment |
$begingroup$
not true. The compact subsets of Sorgenfrey line must be finite sets. If it is infinite countable set even it can not be compact in the ususal topology on R
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
this doesn't make any sense. [0,1] is compact in $mathbb R$ with the usual topology and is even uncountable infinite. And what has this to do with the Sorgenfrey line anyway??
$endgroup$
– noctusraid
Feb 10 '16 at 9:27
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Let $C$ be a compact subset of the Sorgenfrey line (so $X = mathbb{R}$ with a base of open
sets of the form $[a,b)$, for $a < b$). The usual (order) topology on $mathbb{R}$ is coarser (as all open intervals $(a,b)$ can be written as unions of Sorgenfrey-open sets $[a+frac{1}{n}, b)$ for large enough $n$, so are Sorgenfrey-open as well) so $C$ is compact in the usual topology as well. This means in particular that $C$ is closed and bounded in the usual topology on $mathbb{R}$.
Suppose that $x_0 < x_1 < x_2 < ldots $ is a strictly increasing sequence in $C$, and let $c = sup {x_n: n =0,1,ldots }$, which exists and lies in $C$ by the above remarks. Also let $m = min(C)$, which also exists by the same.
Then the sets $[c,rightarrow)$ and $[m, x_0)$ (if non-empty), $[x_n, x_{n+1})$, for $n ge 0$ form a disjoint countable cover of $C$, so we cannot omit a single member of it (we need $[x_n, x_{n+1})$ to cover $x_n$, e.g.), so there is no finite subcover of it that still covers $C$.
This contradicts that $C$ is compact.
We conclude that $C$ has no infinite strictly increasing sequences. Or otherwise put: $C$ in the reverse order (from the standard one) is well-ordered.
And so we have shown that every compact subset of $C$ corresponds to a well-ordered subset of $mathbb{R}$ (by reversing the order, and note that the reals are order isomorphic to its reverse order). And all well-ordered subsets of $mathbb{R}$ are (at most) countable (this follows from several arguments, including one using second countability, e.g.).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
why $C$ compact having no infinite strictly increasing sequences is the same as $C$ in the reverse order being well-ordered?
$endgroup$
– creepyrodent
Nov 6 '18 at 14:08
1
$begingroup$
@dude3221 A strict linearly ordered set $(X,<)$ is well-ordered (every non-empty subset has a minimum) iff there are no infinite decreasing sequences under $<$. This is classical.
$endgroup$
– Henno Brandsma
Nov 6 '18 at 14:11
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $C$ be a compact subset of the Sorgenfrey line (so $X = mathbb{R}$ with a base of open
sets of the form $[a,b)$, for $a < b$). The usual (order) topology on $mathbb{R}$ is coarser (as all open intervals $(a,b)$ can be written as unions of Sorgenfrey-open sets $[a+frac{1}{n}, b)$ for large enough $n$, so are Sorgenfrey-open as well) so $C$ is compact in the usual topology as well. This means in particular that $C$ is closed and bounded in the usual topology on $mathbb{R}$.
Suppose that $x_0 < x_1 < x_2 < ldots $ is a strictly increasing sequence in $C$, and let $c = sup {x_n: n =0,1,ldots }$, which exists and lies in $C$ by the above remarks. Also let $m = min(C)$, which also exists by the same.
Then the sets $[c,rightarrow)$ and $[m, x_0)$ (if non-empty), $[x_n, x_{n+1})$, for $n ge 0$ form a disjoint countable cover of $C$, so we cannot omit a single member of it (we need $[x_n, x_{n+1})$ to cover $x_n$, e.g.), so there is no finite subcover of it that still covers $C$.
This contradicts that $C$ is compact.
We conclude that $C$ has no infinite strictly increasing sequences. Or otherwise put: $C$ in the reverse order (from the standard one) is well-ordered.
And so we have shown that every compact subset of $C$ corresponds to a well-ordered subset of $mathbb{R}$ (by reversing the order, and note that the reals are order isomorphic to its reverse order). And all well-ordered subsets of $mathbb{R}$ are (at most) countable (this follows from several arguments, including one using second countability, e.g.).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
why $C$ compact having no infinite strictly increasing sequences is the same as $C$ in the reverse order being well-ordered?
$endgroup$
– creepyrodent
Nov 6 '18 at 14:08
1
$begingroup$
@dude3221 A strict linearly ordered set $(X,<)$ is well-ordered (every non-empty subset has a minimum) iff there are no infinite decreasing sequences under $<$. This is classical.
$endgroup$
– Henno Brandsma
Nov 6 '18 at 14:11
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $C$ be a compact subset of the Sorgenfrey line (so $X = mathbb{R}$ with a base of open
sets of the form $[a,b)$, for $a < b$). The usual (order) topology on $mathbb{R}$ is coarser (as all open intervals $(a,b)$ can be written as unions of Sorgenfrey-open sets $[a+frac{1}{n}, b)$ for large enough $n$, so are Sorgenfrey-open as well) so $C$ is compact in the usual topology as well. This means in particular that $C$ is closed and bounded in the usual topology on $mathbb{R}$.
Suppose that $x_0 < x_1 < x_2 < ldots $ is a strictly increasing sequence in $C$, and let $c = sup {x_n: n =0,1,ldots }$, which exists and lies in $C$ by the above remarks. Also let $m = min(C)$, which also exists by the same.
Then the sets $[c,rightarrow)$ and $[m, x_0)$ (if non-empty), $[x_n, x_{n+1})$, for $n ge 0$ form a disjoint countable cover of $C$, so we cannot omit a single member of it (we need $[x_n, x_{n+1})$ to cover $x_n$, e.g.), so there is no finite subcover of it that still covers $C$.
This contradicts that $C$ is compact.
We conclude that $C$ has no infinite strictly increasing sequences. Or otherwise put: $C$ in the reverse order (from the standard one) is well-ordered.
And so we have shown that every compact subset of $C$ corresponds to a well-ordered subset of $mathbb{R}$ (by reversing the order, and note that the reals are order isomorphic to its reverse order). And all well-ordered subsets of $mathbb{R}$ are (at most) countable (this follows from several arguments, including one using second countability, e.g.).
$endgroup$
Let $C$ be a compact subset of the Sorgenfrey line (so $X = mathbb{R}$ with a base of open
sets of the form $[a,b)$, for $a < b$). The usual (order) topology on $mathbb{R}$ is coarser (as all open intervals $(a,b)$ can be written as unions of Sorgenfrey-open sets $[a+frac{1}{n}, b)$ for large enough $n$, so are Sorgenfrey-open as well) so $C$ is compact in the usual topology as well. This means in particular that $C$ is closed and bounded in the usual topology on $mathbb{R}$.
Suppose that $x_0 < x_1 < x_2 < ldots $ is a strictly increasing sequence in $C$, and let $c = sup {x_n: n =0,1,ldots }$, which exists and lies in $C$ by the above remarks. Also let $m = min(C)$, which also exists by the same.
Then the sets $[c,rightarrow)$ and $[m, x_0)$ (if non-empty), $[x_n, x_{n+1})$, for $n ge 0$ form a disjoint countable cover of $C$, so we cannot omit a single member of it (we need $[x_n, x_{n+1})$ to cover $x_n$, e.g.), so there is no finite subcover of it that still covers $C$.
This contradicts that $C$ is compact.
We conclude that $C$ has no infinite strictly increasing sequences. Or otherwise put: $C$ in the reverse order (from the standard one) is well-ordered.
And so we have shown that every compact subset of $C$ corresponds to a well-ordered subset of $mathbb{R}$ (by reversing the order, and note that the reals are order isomorphic to its reverse order). And all well-ordered subsets of $mathbb{R}$ are (at most) countable (this follows from several arguments, including one using second countability, e.g.).
edited Jan 28 at 9:11
answered Jul 14 '12 at 12:12
Henno BrandsmaHenno Brandsma
114k348123
114k348123
$begingroup$
why $C$ compact having no infinite strictly increasing sequences is the same as $C$ in the reverse order being well-ordered?
$endgroup$
– creepyrodent
Nov 6 '18 at 14:08
1
$begingroup$
@dude3221 A strict linearly ordered set $(X,<)$ is well-ordered (every non-empty subset has a minimum) iff there are no infinite decreasing sequences under $<$. This is classical.
$endgroup$
– Henno Brandsma
Nov 6 '18 at 14:11
add a comment |
$begingroup$
why $C$ compact having no infinite strictly increasing sequences is the same as $C$ in the reverse order being well-ordered?
$endgroup$
– creepyrodent
Nov 6 '18 at 14:08
1
$begingroup$
@dude3221 A strict linearly ordered set $(X,<)$ is well-ordered (every non-empty subset has a minimum) iff there are no infinite decreasing sequences under $<$. This is classical.
$endgroup$
– Henno Brandsma
Nov 6 '18 at 14:11
$begingroup$
why $C$ compact having no infinite strictly increasing sequences is the same as $C$ in the reverse order being well-ordered?
$endgroup$
– creepyrodent
Nov 6 '18 at 14:08
$begingroup$
why $C$ compact having no infinite strictly increasing sequences is the same as $C$ in the reverse order being well-ordered?
$endgroup$
– creepyrodent
Nov 6 '18 at 14:08
1
1
$begingroup$
@dude3221 A strict linearly ordered set $(X,<)$ is well-ordered (every non-empty subset has a minimum) iff there are no infinite decreasing sequences under $<$. This is classical.
$endgroup$
– Henno Brandsma
Nov 6 '18 at 14:11
$begingroup$
@dude3221 A strict linearly ordered set $(X,<)$ is well-ordered (every non-empty subset has a minimum) iff there are no infinite decreasing sequences under $<$. This is classical.
$endgroup$
– Henno Brandsma
Nov 6 '18 at 14:11
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hint: any uncountable set of real numbers contains a strictly increasing infinite sequence.
Hint 2 (added later): show that if a subspace $X$ of the Sorgenfrey line contains a strictly increasing infinite sequence, then $X$ has an open cover with no finite subcover.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
@John But Collin's right.
$endgroup$
– martini
Jul 12 '12 at 12:59
1
$begingroup$
You should try it yourself, for starters. And in the classical topology of $mathbb R$ such sequences can be convergent in contrast to the Sorgenfrey case, where such sequences can't have a convergent subsequence ...
$endgroup$
– martini
Jul 12 '12 at 13:06
$begingroup$
@John: see my second hint above.
$endgroup$
– Colin McQuillan
Jul 12 '12 at 13:44
$begingroup$
The Sorgenfrey line is totally disconnected. One can prove that an infinite totally disconnected space doesn't have uncountable compact subsets, even when it's not discret.
$endgroup$
– Temitope.A
Jul 20 '12 at 13:08
$begingroup$
@Temitope.A Nonsense. The Cantor set is uncountable, totally disconnected and compact.
$endgroup$
– Henno Brandsma
Jan 28 at 9:14
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hint: any uncountable set of real numbers contains a strictly increasing infinite sequence.
Hint 2 (added later): show that if a subspace $X$ of the Sorgenfrey line contains a strictly increasing infinite sequence, then $X$ has an open cover with no finite subcover.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
@John But Collin's right.
$endgroup$
– martini
Jul 12 '12 at 12:59
1
$begingroup$
You should try it yourself, for starters. And in the classical topology of $mathbb R$ such sequences can be convergent in contrast to the Sorgenfrey case, where such sequences can't have a convergent subsequence ...
$endgroup$
– martini
Jul 12 '12 at 13:06
$begingroup$
@John: see my second hint above.
$endgroup$
– Colin McQuillan
Jul 12 '12 at 13:44
$begingroup$
The Sorgenfrey line is totally disconnected. One can prove that an infinite totally disconnected space doesn't have uncountable compact subsets, even when it's not discret.
$endgroup$
– Temitope.A
Jul 20 '12 at 13:08
$begingroup$
@Temitope.A Nonsense. The Cantor set is uncountable, totally disconnected and compact.
$endgroup$
– Henno Brandsma
Jan 28 at 9:14
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hint: any uncountable set of real numbers contains a strictly increasing infinite sequence.
Hint 2 (added later): show that if a subspace $X$ of the Sorgenfrey line contains a strictly increasing infinite sequence, then $X$ has an open cover with no finite subcover.
$endgroup$
Hint: any uncountable set of real numbers contains a strictly increasing infinite sequence.
Hint 2 (added later): show that if a subspace $X$ of the Sorgenfrey line contains a strictly increasing infinite sequence, then $X$ has an open cover with no finite subcover.
edited Jul 12 '12 at 13:43
answered Jul 12 '12 at 11:58
Colin McQuillanColin McQuillan
4,2681114
4,2681114
1
$begingroup$
@John But Collin's right.
$endgroup$
– martini
Jul 12 '12 at 12:59
1
$begingroup$
You should try it yourself, for starters. And in the classical topology of $mathbb R$ such sequences can be convergent in contrast to the Sorgenfrey case, where such sequences can't have a convergent subsequence ...
$endgroup$
– martini
Jul 12 '12 at 13:06
$begingroup$
@John: see my second hint above.
$endgroup$
– Colin McQuillan
Jul 12 '12 at 13:44
$begingroup$
The Sorgenfrey line is totally disconnected. One can prove that an infinite totally disconnected space doesn't have uncountable compact subsets, even when it's not discret.
$endgroup$
– Temitope.A
Jul 20 '12 at 13:08
$begingroup$
@Temitope.A Nonsense. The Cantor set is uncountable, totally disconnected and compact.
$endgroup$
– Henno Brandsma
Jan 28 at 9:14
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
@John But Collin's right.
$endgroup$
– martini
Jul 12 '12 at 12:59
1
$begingroup$
You should try it yourself, for starters. And in the classical topology of $mathbb R$ such sequences can be convergent in contrast to the Sorgenfrey case, where such sequences can't have a convergent subsequence ...
$endgroup$
– martini
Jul 12 '12 at 13:06
$begingroup$
@John: see my second hint above.
$endgroup$
– Colin McQuillan
Jul 12 '12 at 13:44
$begingroup$
The Sorgenfrey line is totally disconnected. One can prove that an infinite totally disconnected space doesn't have uncountable compact subsets, even when it's not discret.
$endgroup$
– Temitope.A
Jul 20 '12 at 13:08
$begingroup$
@Temitope.A Nonsense. The Cantor set is uncountable, totally disconnected and compact.
$endgroup$
– Henno Brandsma
Jan 28 at 9:14
1
1
$begingroup$
@John But Collin's right.
$endgroup$
– martini
Jul 12 '12 at 12:59
$begingroup$
@John But Collin's right.
$endgroup$
– martini
Jul 12 '12 at 12:59
1
1
$begingroup$
You should try it yourself, for starters. And in the classical topology of $mathbb R$ such sequences can be convergent in contrast to the Sorgenfrey case, where such sequences can't have a convergent subsequence ...
$endgroup$
– martini
Jul 12 '12 at 13:06
$begingroup$
You should try it yourself, for starters. And in the classical topology of $mathbb R$ such sequences can be convergent in contrast to the Sorgenfrey case, where such sequences can't have a convergent subsequence ...
$endgroup$
– martini
Jul 12 '12 at 13:06
$begingroup$
@John: see my second hint above.
$endgroup$
– Colin McQuillan
Jul 12 '12 at 13:44
$begingroup$
@John: see my second hint above.
$endgroup$
– Colin McQuillan
Jul 12 '12 at 13:44
$begingroup$
The Sorgenfrey line is totally disconnected. One can prove that an infinite totally disconnected space doesn't have uncountable compact subsets, even when it's not discret.
$endgroup$
– Temitope.A
Jul 20 '12 at 13:08
$begingroup$
The Sorgenfrey line is totally disconnected. One can prove that an infinite totally disconnected space doesn't have uncountable compact subsets, even when it's not discret.
$endgroup$
– Temitope.A
Jul 20 '12 at 13:08
$begingroup$
@Temitope.A Nonsense. The Cantor set is uncountable, totally disconnected and compact.
$endgroup$
– Henno Brandsma
Jan 28 at 9:14
$begingroup$
@Temitope.A Nonsense. The Cantor set is uncountable, totally disconnected and compact.
$endgroup$
– Henno Brandsma
Jan 28 at 9:14
add a comment |
$begingroup$
not true. The compact subsets of Sorgenfrey line must be finite sets. If it is infinite countable set even it can not be compact in the ususal topology on R
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
this doesn't make any sense. [0,1] is compact in $mathbb R$ with the usual topology and is even uncountable infinite. And what has this to do with the Sorgenfrey line anyway??
$endgroup$
– noctusraid
Feb 10 '16 at 9:27
add a comment |
$begingroup$
not true. The compact subsets of Sorgenfrey line must be finite sets. If it is infinite countable set even it can not be compact in the ususal topology on R
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
this doesn't make any sense. [0,1] is compact in $mathbb R$ with the usual topology and is even uncountable infinite. And what has this to do with the Sorgenfrey line anyway??
$endgroup$
– noctusraid
Feb 10 '16 at 9:27
add a comment |
$begingroup$
not true. The compact subsets of Sorgenfrey line must be finite sets. If it is infinite countable set even it can not be compact in the ususal topology on R
$endgroup$
not true. The compact subsets of Sorgenfrey line must be finite sets. If it is infinite countable set even it can not be compact in the ususal topology on R
answered Feb 10 '16 at 9:23
cenap ozelcenap ozel
1
1
$begingroup$
this doesn't make any sense. [0,1] is compact in $mathbb R$ with the usual topology and is even uncountable infinite. And what has this to do with the Sorgenfrey line anyway??
$endgroup$
– noctusraid
Feb 10 '16 at 9:27
add a comment |
$begingroup$
this doesn't make any sense. [0,1] is compact in $mathbb R$ with the usual topology and is even uncountable infinite. And what has this to do with the Sorgenfrey line anyway??
$endgroup$
– noctusraid
Feb 10 '16 at 9:27
$begingroup$
this doesn't make any sense. [0,1] is compact in $mathbb R$ with the usual topology and is even uncountable infinite. And what has this to do with the Sorgenfrey line anyway??
$endgroup$
– noctusraid
Feb 10 '16 at 9:27
$begingroup$
this doesn't make any sense. [0,1] is compact in $mathbb R$ with the usual topology and is even uncountable infinite. And what has this to do with the Sorgenfrey line anyway??
$endgroup$
– noctusraid
Feb 10 '16 at 9:27
add a comment |
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Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown