Suppose $M_1, dots M_k$ are smooth manifolds, then each of the projection maps $pi_i : M_1 times dots times...












3












$begingroup$



Suppose $M_1, dots M_k$ are smooth manifolds of dimensions $n_1, dots, n_k$ respectively, then each of the projection maps $pi_i : M_1 times dots times M_k to M_i$ is a smooth submersion




This was my attempted proof:



Proof: Let $M = M_1 times dots M_k$ and let $p = (p_1, dots, p_k) in M$ choose a smooth chart $(U, phi)$ containing $p$. Then $U = U_1 times dots times U_k$ and $phi = phi_1 times dots times phi_k$ where each $(U_j, phi_j)$ is a smooth chart in $M_j$. Also note that $phi = phi_1 times dots times phi_k$ means that $phi(p_1, dots, p_k) = (phi_1(p_1), dots, phi_k(p_k)) = left(phi_1 times dots times phi_kright)(p_1, dots, p_k)$.



Let's now compute the local coordinate representation of $widehat{pi_i}$, this is given by $widehat{pi_i} = phi_i circ pi_i circ phi^{-1} : phi[U] to phi_i[U_i]$. Observe that $phi^{-1} = phi_1^{-1} times dots times phi_k^{-1}$. Letting $(x^1, dots, x^{n_i})$ denote the component functions of $phi_i$ we have begin{align*}widehat{pi_i}(x^1, dots, x^{n_1 + dots + n_k}) &= phi_ibigg(pi_ibig(phi_1^{-1}(x^1, dots, x^{n_1 + dots + n_k}), dots, phi_k^{-1}(x^1, dots, x^{n_1 + dots + n_k})big)bigg) \
&=phi_ibigg( phi_i^{-1}(x^1, dots, x^{n_1 + dots + n_k})bigg)
\
&=(x^1, dots, x^{n_1 + dots + n_k})
end{align*}



Then $dwidehat{pi}_{phi(p)}$ is represented by the Jacobian matrix of $widehat{pi_i}$ at $phi(p)$ and computing the Jacobian matrix for $widehat{pi_i}$ we see that $$dwidehat{pi}_{phi(p)} = begin{bmatrix}
I & 0 \
0 & 0\
end{bmatrix}$$

with $n_i$ many $1$'s down the main diagonal. Thus since $d(pi_i)_p = d(widehat{pi_i})_{phi(p)}$ in the chart $(U, phi)$ we have $operatorname{rank}d(pi_i)_p = operatorname{rank}d(widehat{pi_i})_{phi(p)} = n_i = operatorname{dim}T_{p_i} M_i$ hence $d(pi_i)_p$ is surjective and thus $pi_i$ is a smooth submersion. $square$





Is my proof correct? If not where have I gone wrong?










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$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Your proof looked correct to me. I would simplify it as follows: "By induction suffices to consider $k = 2$ and then, by definition, there exists charts such that the local expression of $pi$ is simply $(x,y) mapsto y,$ which is clearly of class $mathscr{C}^infty$ and its derivative has full rank."
    $endgroup$
    – Will M.
    Jan 24 at 5:13










  • $begingroup$
    You can try coordinate invariant approach as in here.
    $endgroup$
    – Sou
    Jan 24 at 5:59


















3












$begingroup$



Suppose $M_1, dots M_k$ are smooth manifolds of dimensions $n_1, dots, n_k$ respectively, then each of the projection maps $pi_i : M_1 times dots times M_k to M_i$ is a smooth submersion




This was my attempted proof:



Proof: Let $M = M_1 times dots M_k$ and let $p = (p_1, dots, p_k) in M$ choose a smooth chart $(U, phi)$ containing $p$. Then $U = U_1 times dots times U_k$ and $phi = phi_1 times dots times phi_k$ where each $(U_j, phi_j)$ is a smooth chart in $M_j$. Also note that $phi = phi_1 times dots times phi_k$ means that $phi(p_1, dots, p_k) = (phi_1(p_1), dots, phi_k(p_k)) = left(phi_1 times dots times phi_kright)(p_1, dots, p_k)$.



Let's now compute the local coordinate representation of $widehat{pi_i}$, this is given by $widehat{pi_i} = phi_i circ pi_i circ phi^{-1} : phi[U] to phi_i[U_i]$. Observe that $phi^{-1} = phi_1^{-1} times dots times phi_k^{-1}$. Letting $(x^1, dots, x^{n_i})$ denote the component functions of $phi_i$ we have begin{align*}widehat{pi_i}(x^1, dots, x^{n_1 + dots + n_k}) &= phi_ibigg(pi_ibig(phi_1^{-1}(x^1, dots, x^{n_1 + dots + n_k}), dots, phi_k^{-1}(x^1, dots, x^{n_1 + dots + n_k})big)bigg) \
&=phi_ibigg( phi_i^{-1}(x^1, dots, x^{n_1 + dots + n_k})bigg)
\
&=(x^1, dots, x^{n_1 + dots + n_k})
end{align*}



Then $dwidehat{pi}_{phi(p)}$ is represented by the Jacobian matrix of $widehat{pi_i}$ at $phi(p)$ and computing the Jacobian matrix for $widehat{pi_i}$ we see that $$dwidehat{pi}_{phi(p)} = begin{bmatrix}
I & 0 \
0 & 0\
end{bmatrix}$$

with $n_i$ many $1$'s down the main diagonal. Thus since $d(pi_i)_p = d(widehat{pi_i})_{phi(p)}$ in the chart $(U, phi)$ we have $operatorname{rank}d(pi_i)_p = operatorname{rank}d(widehat{pi_i})_{phi(p)} = n_i = operatorname{dim}T_{p_i} M_i$ hence $d(pi_i)_p$ is surjective and thus $pi_i$ is a smooth submersion. $square$





Is my proof correct? If not where have I gone wrong?










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Your proof looked correct to me. I would simplify it as follows: "By induction suffices to consider $k = 2$ and then, by definition, there exists charts such that the local expression of $pi$ is simply $(x,y) mapsto y,$ which is clearly of class $mathscr{C}^infty$ and its derivative has full rank."
    $endgroup$
    – Will M.
    Jan 24 at 5:13










  • $begingroup$
    You can try coordinate invariant approach as in here.
    $endgroup$
    – Sou
    Jan 24 at 5:59
















3












3








3





$begingroup$



Suppose $M_1, dots M_k$ are smooth manifolds of dimensions $n_1, dots, n_k$ respectively, then each of the projection maps $pi_i : M_1 times dots times M_k to M_i$ is a smooth submersion




This was my attempted proof:



Proof: Let $M = M_1 times dots M_k$ and let $p = (p_1, dots, p_k) in M$ choose a smooth chart $(U, phi)$ containing $p$. Then $U = U_1 times dots times U_k$ and $phi = phi_1 times dots times phi_k$ where each $(U_j, phi_j)$ is a smooth chart in $M_j$. Also note that $phi = phi_1 times dots times phi_k$ means that $phi(p_1, dots, p_k) = (phi_1(p_1), dots, phi_k(p_k)) = left(phi_1 times dots times phi_kright)(p_1, dots, p_k)$.



Let's now compute the local coordinate representation of $widehat{pi_i}$, this is given by $widehat{pi_i} = phi_i circ pi_i circ phi^{-1} : phi[U] to phi_i[U_i]$. Observe that $phi^{-1} = phi_1^{-1} times dots times phi_k^{-1}$. Letting $(x^1, dots, x^{n_i})$ denote the component functions of $phi_i$ we have begin{align*}widehat{pi_i}(x^1, dots, x^{n_1 + dots + n_k}) &= phi_ibigg(pi_ibig(phi_1^{-1}(x^1, dots, x^{n_1 + dots + n_k}), dots, phi_k^{-1}(x^1, dots, x^{n_1 + dots + n_k})big)bigg) \
&=phi_ibigg( phi_i^{-1}(x^1, dots, x^{n_1 + dots + n_k})bigg)
\
&=(x^1, dots, x^{n_1 + dots + n_k})
end{align*}



Then $dwidehat{pi}_{phi(p)}$ is represented by the Jacobian matrix of $widehat{pi_i}$ at $phi(p)$ and computing the Jacobian matrix for $widehat{pi_i}$ we see that $$dwidehat{pi}_{phi(p)} = begin{bmatrix}
I & 0 \
0 & 0\
end{bmatrix}$$

with $n_i$ many $1$'s down the main diagonal. Thus since $d(pi_i)_p = d(widehat{pi_i})_{phi(p)}$ in the chart $(U, phi)$ we have $operatorname{rank}d(pi_i)_p = operatorname{rank}d(widehat{pi_i})_{phi(p)} = n_i = operatorname{dim}T_{p_i} M_i$ hence $d(pi_i)_p$ is surjective and thus $pi_i$ is a smooth submersion. $square$





Is my proof correct? If not where have I gone wrong?










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$





Suppose $M_1, dots M_k$ are smooth manifolds of dimensions $n_1, dots, n_k$ respectively, then each of the projection maps $pi_i : M_1 times dots times M_k to M_i$ is a smooth submersion




This was my attempted proof:



Proof: Let $M = M_1 times dots M_k$ and let $p = (p_1, dots, p_k) in M$ choose a smooth chart $(U, phi)$ containing $p$. Then $U = U_1 times dots times U_k$ and $phi = phi_1 times dots times phi_k$ where each $(U_j, phi_j)$ is a smooth chart in $M_j$. Also note that $phi = phi_1 times dots times phi_k$ means that $phi(p_1, dots, p_k) = (phi_1(p_1), dots, phi_k(p_k)) = left(phi_1 times dots times phi_kright)(p_1, dots, p_k)$.



Let's now compute the local coordinate representation of $widehat{pi_i}$, this is given by $widehat{pi_i} = phi_i circ pi_i circ phi^{-1} : phi[U] to phi_i[U_i]$. Observe that $phi^{-1} = phi_1^{-1} times dots times phi_k^{-1}$. Letting $(x^1, dots, x^{n_i})$ denote the component functions of $phi_i$ we have begin{align*}widehat{pi_i}(x^1, dots, x^{n_1 + dots + n_k}) &= phi_ibigg(pi_ibig(phi_1^{-1}(x^1, dots, x^{n_1 + dots + n_k}), dots, phi_k^{-1}(x^1, dots, x^{n_1 + dots + n_k})big)bigg) \
&=phi_ibigg( phi_i^{-1}(x^1, dots, x^{n_1 + dots + n_k})bigg)
\
&=(x^1, dots, x^{n_1 + dots + n_k})
end{align*}



Then $dwidehat{pi}_{phi(p)}$ is represented by the Jacobian matrix of $widehat{pi_i}$ at $phi(p)$ and computing the Jacobian matrix for $widehat{pi_i}$ we see that $$dwidehat{pi}_{phi(p)} = begin{bmatrix}
I & 0 \
0 & 0\
end{bmatrix}$$

with $n_i$ many $1$'s down the main diagonal. Thus since $d(pi_i)_p = d(widehat{pi_i})_{phi(p)}$ in the chart $(U, phi)$ we have $operatorname{rank}d(pi_i)_p = operatorname{rank}d(widehat{pi_i})_{phi(p)} = n_i = operatorname{dim}T_{p_i} M_i$ hence $d(pi_i)_p$ is surjective and thus $pi_i$ is a smooth submersion. $square$





Is my proof correct? If not where have I gone wrong?







proof-verification differential-geometry






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share|cite|improve this question











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asked Jan 24 at 5:07









PerturbativePerturbative

4,49121553




4,49121553












  • $begingroup$
    Your proof looked correct to me. I would simplify it as follows: "By induction suffices to consider $k = 2$ and then, by definition, there exists charts such that the local expression of $pi$ is simply $(x,y) mapsto y,$ which is clearly of class $mathscr{C}^infty$ and its derivative has full rank."
    $endgroup$
    – Will M.
    Jan 24 at 5:13










  • $begingroup$
    You can try coordinate invariant approach as in here.
    $endgroup$
    – Sou
    Jan 24 at 5:59




















  • $begingroup$
    Your proof looked correct to me. I would simplify it as follows: "By induction suffices to consider $k = 2$ and then, by definition, there exists charts such that the local expression of $pi$ is simply $(x,y) mapsto y,$ which is clearly of class $mathscr{C}^infty$ and its derivative has full rank."
    $endgroup$
    – Will M.
    Jan 24 at 5:13










  • $begingroup$
    You can try coordinate invariant approach as in here.
    $endgroup$
    – Sou
    Jan 24 at 5:59


















$begingroup$
Your proof looked correct to me. I would simplify it as follows: "By induction suffices to consider $k = 2$ and then, by definition, there exists charts such that the local expression of $pi$ is simply $(x,y) mapsto y,$ which is clearly of class $mathscr{C}^infty$ and its derivative has full rank."
$endgroup$
– Will M.
Jan 24 at 5:13




$begingroup$
Your proof looked correct to me. I would simplify it as follows: "By induction suffices to consider $k = 2$ and then, by definition, there exists charts such that the local expression of $pi$ is simply $(x,y) mapsto y,$ which is clearly of class $mathscr{C}^infty$ and its derivative has full rank."
$endgroup$
– Will M.
Jan 24 at 5:13












$begingroup$
You can try coordinate invariant approach as in here.
$endgroup$
– Sou
Jan 24 at 5:59






$begingroup$
You can try coordinate invariant approach as in here.
$endgroup$
– Sou
Jan 24 at 5:59












1 Answer
1






active

oldest

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1












$begingroup$

It is almost correct. The idea is right, but I would have written it like this:



Let $mathbf x_i in mathbf R^{n_i}$, so $mathbf x = (mathbf x_1,dots,mathbf x_k)$ is a point in $mathbf R^{n_1}timesdotsbtimesmathbf R^{n_k}$.



Then,
begin{align*}
widehatpi_i(mathbf x) = mathbf x_i,
end{align*}

or in matrix form as
$$
widehatpi_i =
begin{bmatrix}
0 & dotsb & I_i & dotsb & 0
end{bmatrix},
$$

where $I_i$ is the $n_itimes n_i$ identity matrix.
Since $dwidehat pi_i = widehat pi_i$, and $widehatpi_i$ clearly has rank $n_i$, $widehat pi_i$ is a submersion.



Note, in particular, what is wrong with your proof:




  • You have written that the coordinate form of $pi_i$ is actually the identity map $mathbf R^{n_1}timesdotsbtimesmathbf R^{n_k}tomathbf R^{n_1}timesdotsbtimesmathbf R^{n_k}$ by just not being careful.


  • The matrix for $widehat pi_i$ is not correct, and actually shows the wrong conclusion because the matrix you wrote down does not have the correct dimensions. You should have found that the coordinate representation is a map $mathbf R^{n_1}timesdotsbtimesmathbf R^{n_k}to mathbf R^{n_i}$, so the matrix should have dimensions $n_itimes(n_1+dotsb+n_k)$.







share|cite|improve this answer











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    $begingroup$

    It is almost correct. The idea is right, but I would have written it like this:



    Let $mathbf x_i in mathbf R^{n_i}$, so $mathbf x = (mathbf x_1,dots,mathbf x_k)$ is a point in $mathbf R^{n_1}timesdotsbtimesmathbf R^{n_k}$.



    Then,
    begin{align*}
    widehatpi_i(mathbf x) = mathbf x_i,
    end{align*}

    or in matrix form as
    $$
    widehatpi_i =
    begin{bmatrix}
    0 & dotsb & I_i & dotsb & 0
    end{bmatrix},
    $$

    where $I_i$ is the $n_itimes n_i$ identity matrix.
    Since $dwidehat pi_i = widehat pi_i$, and $widehatpi_i$ clearly has rank $n_i$, $widehat pi_i$ is a submersion.



    Note, in particular, what is wrong with your proof:




    • You have written that the coordinate form of $pi_i$ is actually the identity map $mathbf R^{n_1}timesdotsbtimesmathbf R^{n_k}tomathbf R^{n_1}timesdotsbtimesmathbf R^{n_k}$ by just not being careful.


    • The matrix for $widehat pi_i$ is not correct, and actually shows the wrong conclusion because the matrix you wrote down does not have the correct dimensions. You should have found that the coordinate representation is a map $mathbf R^{n_1}timesdotsbtimesmathbf R^{n_k}to mathbf R^{n_i}$, so the matrix should have dimensions $n_itimes(n_1+dotsb+n_k)$.







    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$


















      1












      $begingroup$

      It is almost correct. The idea is right, but I would have written it like this:



      Let $mathbf x_i in mathbf R^{n_i}$, so $mathbf x = (mathbf x_1,dots,mathbf x_k)$ is a point in $mathbf R^{n_1}timesdotsbtimesmathbf R^{n_k}$.



      Then,
      begin{align*}
      widehatpi_i(mathbf x) = mathbf x_i,
      end{align*}

      or in matrix form as
      $$
      widehatpi_i =
      begin{bmatrix}
      0 & dotsb & I_i & dotsb & 0
      end{bmatrix},
      $$

      where $I_i$ is the $n_itimes n_i$ identity matrix.
      Since $dwidehat pi_i = widehat pi_i$, and $widehatpi_i$ clearly has rank $n_i$, $widehat pi_i$ is a submersion.



      Note, in particular, what is wrong with your proof:




      • You have written that the coordinate form of $pi_i$ is actually the identity map $mathbf R^{n_1}timesdotsbtimesmathbf R^{n_k}tomathbf R^{n_1}timesdotsbtimesmathbf R^{n_k}$ by just not being careful.


      • The matrix for $widehat pi_i$ is not correct, and actually shows the wrong conclusion because the matrix you wrote down does not have the correct dimensions. You should have found that the coordinate representation is a map $mathbf R^{n_1}timesdotsbtimesmathbf R^{n_k}to mathbf R^{n_i}$, so the matrix should have dimensions $n_itimes(n_1+dotsb+n_k)$.







      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$
















        1












        1








        1





        $begingroup$

        It is almost correct. The idea is right, but I would have written it like this:



        Let $mathbf x_i in mathbf R^{n_i}$, so $mathbf x = (mathbf x_1,dots,mathbf x_k)$ is a point in $mathbf R^{n_1}timesdotsbtimesmathbf R^{n_k}$.



        Then,
        begin{align*}
        widehatpi_i(mathbf x) = mathbf x_i,
        end{align*}

        or in matrix form as
        $$
        widehatpi_i =
        begin{bmatrix}
        0 & dotsb & I_i & dotsb & 0
        end{bmatrix},
        $$

        where $I_i$ is the $n_itimes n_i$ identity matrix.
        Since $dwidehat pi_i = widehat pi_i$, and $widehatpi_i$ clearly has rank $n_i$, $widehat pi_i$ is a submersion.



        Note, in particular, what is wrong with your proof:




        • You have written that the coordinate form of $pi_i$ is actually the identity map $mathbf R^{n_1}timesdotsbtimesmathbf R^{n_k}tomathbf R^{n_1}timesdotsbtimesmathbf R^{n_k}$ by just not being careful.


        • The matrix for $widehat pi_i$ is not correct, and actually shows the wrong conclusion because the matrix you wrote down does not have the correct dimensions. You should have found that the coordinate representation is a map $mathbf R^{n_1}timesdotsbtimesmathbf R^{n_k}to mathbf R^{n_i}$, so the matrix should have dimensions $n_itimes(n_1+dotsb+n_k)$.







        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        It is almost correct. The idea is right, but I would have written it like this:



        Let $mathbf x_i in mathbf R^{n_i}$, so $mathbf x = (mathbf x_1,dots,mathbf x_k)$ is a point in $mathbf R^{n_1}timesdotsbtimesmathbf R^{n_k}$.



        Then,
        begin{align*}
        widehatpi_i(mathbf x) = mathbf x_i,
        end{align*}

        or in matrix form as
        $$
        widehatpi_i =
        begin{bmatrix}
        0 & dotsb & I_i & dotsb & 0
        end{bmatrix},
        $$

        where $I_i$ is the $n_itimes n_i$ identity matrix.
        Since $dwidehat pi_i = widehat pi_i$, and $widehatpi_i$ clearly has rank $n_i$, $widehat pi_i$ is a submersion.



        Note, in particular, what is wrong with your proof:




        • You have written that the coordinate form of $pi_i$ is actually the identity map $mathbf R^{n_1}timesdotsbtimesmathbf R^{n_k}tomathbf R^{n_1}timesdotsbtimesmathbf R^{n_k}$ by just not being careful.


        • The matrix for $widehat pi_i$ is not correct, and actually shows the wrong conclusion because the matrix you wrote down does not have the correct dimensions. You should have found that the coordinate representation is a map $mathbf R^{n_1}timesdotsbtimesmathbf R^{n_k}to mathbf R^{n_i}$, so the matrix should have dimensions $n_itimes(n_1+dotsb+n_k)$.








        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited Jan 24 at 5:22

























        answered Jan 24 at 5:16









        Alex OrtizAlex Ortiz

        10.9k21441




        10.9k21441






























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