CP/M SKU per CPU only?












6















The impression I get is that CP/M relied on the BIOS, provided in ROM with the computer, for all the hardware-specific functions. So if you bought CP/M, you didn't have to specify what computer you had; the same discs would run on any computer with a suitable BIOS...



... almost; unlike MS-DOS, CP/M supported multiple CPU architectures including 8080, Z80 and later 68000. So you would have to be sure to get a version suitable for your CPU.



Is this correct, or was it more complicated than that?










share|improve this question



























    6















    The impression I get is that CP/M relied on the BIOS, provided in ROM with the computer, for all the hardware-specific functions. So if you bought CP/M, you didn't have to specify what computer you had; the same discs would run on any computer with a suitable BIOS...



    ... almost; unlike MS-DOS, CP/M supported multiple CPU architectures including 8080, Z80 and later 68000. So you would have to be sure to get a version suitable for your CPU.



    Is this correct, or was it more complicated than that?










    share|improve this question

























      6












      6








      6








      The impression I get is that CP/M relied on the BIOS, provided in ROM with the computer, for all the hardware-specific functions. So if you bought CP/M, you didn't have to specify what computer you had; the same discs would run on any computer with a suitable BIOS...



      ... almost; unlike MS-DOS, CP/M supported multiple CPU architectures including 8080, Z80 and later 68000. So you would have to be sure to get a version suitable for your CPU.



      Is this correct, or was it more complicated than that?










      share|improve this question














      The impression I get is that CP/M relied on the BIOS, provided in ROM with the computer, for all the hardware-specific functions. So if you bought CP/M, you didn't have to specify what computer you had; the same discs would run on any computer with a suitable BIOS...



      ... almost; unlike MS-DOS, CP/M supported multiple CPU architectures including 8080, Z80 and later 68000. So you would have to be sure to get a version suitable for your CPU.



      Is this correct, or was it more complicated than that?







      cp-m






      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question











      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question










      asked Jan 10 at 21:25









      rwallacerwallace

      9,001445129




      9,001445129






















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

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          7















          The impression I get is that CP/M relied on the BIOS, provided in ROM with the computer, for all the hardware-specific functions.




          No. Usually only a Bootloader is present in ROM. The BIOS is the hardware dependent part of CP/M (*1), loaded from the boot disk. It was the PC who established the rule to have BIOS in ROM by default (*2).




          So if you bought CP/M, you didn't have to specify what computer you had; the same discs would run on any computer with a suitable BIOS...




          Of course you had. Well, you didn't when buying an already adapted one from your machine's manufacturer. But when buying a genuine CP/M from DR, you received a BIOS example file and had to tweak that to include whatever hardware your machine had.




          ... almost; unlike MS-DOS, CP/M supported multiple CPU architectures




          So did MS-DOS, including 8086, V20, 80186 and so on.




          including 8080, Z80 and later 68000. So you would have to be sure to get a version suitable for your CPU.




          No, well, yes in case of 68k, but Z80 (*3) just used the 8080 code. Keep in mind, CP/M-80 (*4) is restricted to only use 8080 code. That way it can boot on any 8080 compatible machines (*5). Machine vendors could (and sometimes did) use instructions specific for their CPU (like Z80) within the BIOS, or applications, but BDOS and CCP was always strict 8080 code (*6).




          Is this correct, or was it more complicated than that?




          Incorrect and, as shown, way more simple :))





          *1 - CP/M consists of BIOS (hardware dependant OS - today this might be called drivers), BDOS (hardware independent OS) and CCP (command line processor).



          *2 - Or more correct, even PC-DOS kept that structure. When booting IBMBIO.COM (IO.SYS for MS-DOS, DRBIOS.SYS for DR-DOS) was loaded first providing a wrapper around ROM BIOS. This layer was rather thin in the beginning and mostly intended to allow for future extensions - which happened a lot after DOS 2.0, as IBMBIO.COM now contained all basic device drivers. After that, IBMDOS.COM (MSDOS.SYS for MS-DOS, DRBDOS.SYS for DR-DOS) as OS Core was loaded, followed by COMMAND.COM.



          Some MS-DOS machines, like the SIEMENS PC-D, had also only a bootloader in ROM and IO.SYS contained the whole BIOS code.



          So bottom line: PC-DOS works exactly like CP/M, except that in the beginning most of the BIOS code was already in ROM, so no RAM had to be wasted for this.



          *3 - And other 8080 compatible CPUs.



          *4 - As it later was called when other CPU architectures where supported.



          *5 - Given a sufficient BIOS is on disk.



          *6 - One reason why ZCPR is so hyped - it is Z80 optimized :))






          share|improve this answer


























          • zcpr was really nice.

            – Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen
            Jan 10 at 22:10











          • @ThorbjørnRavnAndersen Well, yes, to be fair, ZCPR was more than just a few Z80 instructions. Much more and quite useful.

            – Raffzahn
            Jan 10 at 22:14



















          6














          It was more complicated. CP/M disks were generally specific to a particular model of computer.



          During the CP/M era a great number of incompatible 8" and 5.25" floppy disk formats were in use by CP/M machines. There was no guarantee that two Z80 CP/M machines from different manufacturers could read each others' disks.



          Even if a machine could read another machine's disk format, it likely wouldn't be able to boot CP/M from that disk if the CP/M BIOS was not compatible with that specific machine. The BIOS is technically part of CP/M, and is different to the BIOS built into the IBM PC and other boot ROMs. In CP/M parlance, the BIOS was the device driver layer that supported the floppy drive and terminal for a specific machine. Other than this CP/M was largely platform agnostic and, in principle, you only rewrote the BIOS to support a new platform.



          Because of these factors, users would usually get an appropriate version of CP/M directly from the manufacturer and seller of their particular computer. Apple II Z80 cards came with Apple CP/M for Disk II disks. Kaypro machines came with Kaypro CP/M for Kaypro disks. And so on.






          share|improve this answer





















          • 5





            I recall there was a CP/M program - Uniform - which purpose in life was to read and write a myriad of various CP/M-disks format (given the drive could do them). The shareware MS-DOS program 22dsk could do the same.

            – Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen
            Jan 10 at 22:07













          Your Answer








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          2 Answers
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          7















          The impression I get is that CP/M relied on the BIOS, provided in ROM with the computer, for all the hardware-specific functions.




          No. Usually only a Bootloader is present in ROM. The BIOS is the hardware dependent part of CP/M (*1), loaded from the boot disk. It was the PC who established the rule to have BIOS in ROM by default (*2).




          So if you bought CP/M, you didn't have to specify what computer you had; the same discs would run on any computer with a suitable BIOS...




          Of course you had. Well, you didn't when buying an already adapted one from your machine's manufacturer. But when buying a genuine CP/M from DR, you received a BIOS example file and had to tweak that to include whatever hardware your machine had.




          ... almost; unlike MS-DOS, CP/M supported multiple CPU architectures




          So did MS-DOS, including 8086, V20, 80186 and so on.




          including 8080, Z80 and later 68000. So you would have to be sure to get a version suitable for your CPU.




          No, well, yes in case of 68k, but Z80 (*3) just used the 8080 code. Keep in mind, CP/M-80 (*4) is restricted to only use 8080 code. That way it can boot on any 8080 compatible machines (*5). Machine vendors could (and sometimes did) use instructions specific for their CPU (like Z80) within the BIOS, or applications, but BDOS and CCP was always strict 8080 code (*6).




          Is this correct, or was it more complicated than that?




          Incorrect and, as shown, way more simple :))





          *1 - CP/M consists of BIOS (hardware dependant OS - today this might be called drivers), BDOS (hardware independent OS) and CCP (command line processor).



          *2 - Or more correct, even PC-DOS kept that structure. When booting IBMBIO.COM (IO.SYS for MS-DOS, DRBIOS.SYS for DR-DOS) was loaded first providing a wrapper around ROM BIOS. This layer was rather thin in the beginning and mostly intended to allow for future extensions - which happened a lot after DOS 2.0, as IBMBIO.COM now contained all basic device drivers. After that, IBMDOS.COM (MSDOS.SYS for MS-DOS, DRBDOS.SYS for DR-DOS) as OS Core was loaded, followed by COMMAND.COM.



          Some MS-DOS machines, like the SIEMENS PC-D, had also only a bootloader in ROM and IO.SYS contained the whole BIOS code.



          So bottom line: PC-DOS works exactly like CP/M, except that in the beginning most of the BIOS code was already in ROM, so no RAM had to be wasted for this.



          *3 - And other 8080 compatible CPUs.



          *4 - As it later was called when other CPU architectures where supported.



          *5 - Given a sufficient BIOS is on disk.



          *6 - One reason why ZCPR is so hyped - it is Z80 optimized :))






          share|improve this answer


























          • zcpr was really nice.

            – Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen
            Jan 10 at 22:10











          • @ThorbjørnRavnAndersen Well, yes, to be fair, ZCPR was more than just a few Z80 instructions. Much more and quite useful.

            – Raffzahn
            Jan 10 at 22:14
















          7















          The impression I get is that CP/M relied on the BIOS, provided in ROM with the computer, for all the hardware-specific functions.




          No. Usually only a Bootloader is present in ROM. The BIOS is the hardware dependent part of CP/M (*1), loaded from the boot disk. It was the PC who established the rule to have BIOS in ROM by default (*2).




          So if you bought CP/M, you didn't have to specify what computer you had; the same discs would run on any computer with a suitable BIOS...




          Of course you had. Well, you didn't when buying an already adapted one from your machine's manufacturer. But when buying a genuine CP/M from DR, you received a BIOS example file and had to tweak that to include whatever hardware your machine had.




          ... almost; unlike MS-DOS, CP/M supported multiple CPU architectures




          So did MS-DOS, including 8086, V20, 80186 and so on.




          including 8080, Z80 and later 68000. So you would have to be sure to get a version suitable for your CPU.




          No, well, yes in case of 68k, but Z80 (*3) just used the 8080 code. Keep in mind, CP/M-80 (*4) is restricted to only use 8080 code. That way it can boot on any 8080 compatible machines (*5). Machine vendors could (and sometimes did) use instructions specific for their CPU (like Z80) within the BIOS, or applications, but BDOS and CCP was always strict 8080 code (*6).




          Is this correct, or was it more complicated than that?




          Incorrect and, as shown, way more simple :))





          *1 - CP/M consists of BIOS (hardware dependant OS - today this might be called drivers), BDOS (hardware independent OS) and CCP (command line processor).



          *2 - Or more correct, even PC-DOS kept that structure. When booting IBMBIO.COM (IO.SYS for MS-DOS, DRBIOS.SYS for DR-DOS) was loaded first providing a wrapper around ROM BIOS. This layer was rather thin in the beginning and mostly intended to allow for future extensions - which happened a lot after DOS 2.0, as IBMBIO.COM now contained all basic device drivers. After that, IBMDOS.COM (MSDOS.SYS for MS-DOS, DRBDOS.SYS for DR-DOS) as OS Core was loaded, followed by COMMAND.COM.



          Some MS-DOS machines, like the SIEMENS PC-D, had also only a bootloader in ROM and IO.SYS contained the whole BIOS code.



          So bottom line: PC-DOS works exactly like CP/M, except that in the beginning most of the BIOS code was already in ROM, so no RAM had to be wasted for this.



          *3 - And other 8080 compatible CPUs.



          *4 - As it later was called when other CPU architectures where supported.



          *5 - Given a sufficient BIOS is on disk.



          *6 - One reason why ZCPR is so hyped - it is Z80 optimized :))






          share|improve this answer


























          • zcpr was really nice.

            – Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen
            Jan 10 at 22:10











          • @ThorbjørnRavnAndersen Well, yes, to be fair, ZCPR was more than just a few Z80 instructions. Much more and quite useful.

            – Raffzahn
            Jan 10 at 22:14














          7












          7








          7








          The impression I get is that CP/M relied on the BIOS, provided in ROM with the computer, for all the hardware-specific functions.




          No. Usually only a Bootloader is present in ROM. The BIOS is the hardware dependent part of CP/M (*1), loaded from the boot disk. It was the PC who established the rule to have BIOS in ROM by default (*2).




          So if you bought CP/M, you didn't have to specify what computer you had; the same discs would run on any computer with a suitable BIOS...




          Of course you had. Well, you didn't when buying an already adapted one from your machine's manufacturer. But when buying a genuine CP/M from DR, you received a BIOS example file and had to tweak that to include whatever hardware your machine had.




          ... almost; unlike MS-DOS, CP/M supported multiple CPU architectures




          So did MS-DOS, including 8086, V20, 80186 and so on.




          including 8080, Z80 and later 68000. So you would have to be sure to get a version suitable for your CPU.




          No, well, yes in case of 68k, but Z80 (*3) just used the 8080 code. Keep in mind, CP/M-80 (*4) is restricted to only use 8080 code. That way it can boot on any 8080 compatible machines (*5). Machine vendors could (and sometimes did) use instructions specific for their CPU (like Z80) within the BIOS, or applications, but BDOS and CCP was always strict 8080 code (*6).




          Is this correct, or was it more complicated than that?




          Incorrect and, as shown, way more simple :))





          *1 - CP/M consists of BIOS (hardware dependant OS - today this might be called drivers), BDOS (hardware independent OS) and CCP (command line processor).



          *2 - Or more correct, even PC-DOS kept that structure. When booting IBMBIO.COM (IO.SYS for MS-DOS, DRBIOS.SYS for DR-DOS) was loaded first providing a wrapper around ROM BIOS. This layer was rather thin in the beginning and mostly intended to allow for future extensions - which happened a lot after DOS 2.0, as IBMBIO.COM now contained all basic device drivers. After that, IBMDOS.COM (MSDOS.SYS for MS-DOS, DRBDOS.SYS for DR-DOS) as OS Core was loaded, followed by COMMAND.COM.



          Some MS-DOS machines, like the SIEMENS PC-D, had also only a bootloader in ROM and IO.SYS contained the whole BIOS code.



          So bottom line: PC-DOS works exactly like CP/M, except that in the beginning most of the BIOS code was already in ROM, so no RAM had to be wasted for this.



          *3 - And other 8080 compatible CPUs.



          *4 - As it later was called when other CPU architectures where supported.



          *5 - Given a sufficient BIOS is on disk.



          *6 - One reason why ZCPR is so hyped - it is Z80 optimized :))






          share|improve this answer
















          The impression I get is that CP/M relied on the BIOS, provided in ROM with the computer, for all the hardware-specific functions.




          No. Usually only a Bootloader is present in ROM. The BIOS is the hardware dependent part of CP/M (*1), loaded from the boot disk. It was the PC who established the rule to have BIOS in ROM by default (*2).




          So if you bought CP/M, you didn't have to specify what computer you had; the same discs would run on any computer with a suitable BIOS...




          Of course you had. Well, you didn't when buying an already adapted one from your machine's manufacturer. But when buying a genuine CP/M from DR, you received a BIOS example file and had to tweak that to include whatever hardware your machine had.




          ... almost; unlike MS-DOS, CP/M supported multiple CPU architectures




          So did MS-DOS, including 8086, V20, 80186 and so on.




          including 8080, Z80 and later 68000. So you would have to be sure to get a version suitable for your CPU.




          No, well, yes in case of 68k, but Z80 (*3) just used the 8080 code. Keep in mind, CP/M-80 (*4) is restricted to only use 8080 code. That way it can boot on any 8080 compatible machines (*5). Machine vendors could (and sometimes did) use instructions specific for their CPU (like Z80) within the BIOS, or applications, but BDOS and CCP was always strict 8080 code (*6).




          Is this correct, or was it more complicated than that?




          Incorrect and, as shown, way more simple :))





          *1 - CP/M consists of BIOS (hardware dependant OS - today this might be called drivers), BDOS (hardware independent OS) and CCP (command line processor).



          *2 - Or more correct, even PC-DOS kept that structure. When booting IBMBIO.COM (IO.SYS for MS-DOS, DRBIOS.SYS for DR-DOS) was loaded first providing a wrapper around ROM BIOS. This layer was rather thin in the beginning and mostly intended to allow for future extensions - which happened a lot after DOS 2.0, as IBMBIO.COM now contained all basic device drivers. After that, IBMDOS.COM (MSDOS.SYS for MS-DOS, DRBDOS.SYS for DR-DOS) as OS Core was loaded, followed by COMMAND.COM.



          Some MS-DOS machines, like the SIEMENS PC-D, had also only a bootloader in ROM and IO.SYS contained the whole BIOS code.



          So bottom line: PC-DOS works exactly like CP/M, except that in the beginning most of the BIOS code was already in ROM, so no RAM had to be wasted for this.



          *3 - And other 8080 compatible CPUs.



          *4 - As it later was called when other CPU architectures where supported.



          *5 - Given a sufficient BIOS is on disk.



          *6 - One reason why ZCPR is so hyped - it is Z80 optimized :))







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Jan 11 at 0:05

























          answered Jan 10 at 21:45









          RaffzahnRaffzahn

          50.1k6115202




          50.1k6115202













          • zcpr was really nice.

            – Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen
            Jan 10 at 22:10











          • @ThorbjørnRavnAndersen Well, yes, to be fair, ZCPR was more than just a few Z80 instructions. Much more and quite useful.

            – Raffzahn
            Jan 10 at 22:14



















          • zcpr was really nice.

            – Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen
            Jan 10 at 22:10











          • @ThorbjørnRavnAndersen Well, yes, to be fair, ZCPR was more than just a few Z80 instructions. Much more and quite useful.

            – Raffzahn
            Jan 10 at 22:14

















          zcpr was really nice.

          – Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen
          Jan 10 at 22:10





          zcpr was really nice.

          – Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen
          Jan 10 at 22:10













          @ThorbjørnRavnAndersen Well, yes, to be fair, ZCPR was more than just a few Z80 instructions. Much more and quite useful.

          – Raffzahn
          Jan 10 at 22:14





          @ThorbjørnRavnAndersen Well, yes, to be fair, ZCPR was more than just a few Z80 instructions. Much more and quite useful.

          – Raffzahn
          Jan 10 at 22:14











          6














          It was more complicated. CP/M disks were generally specific to a particular model of computer.



          During the CP/M era a great number of incompatible 8" and 5.25" floppy disk formats were in use by CP/M machines. There was no guarantee that two Z80 CP/M machines from different manufacturers could read each others' disks.



          Even if a machine could read another machine's disk format, it likely wouldn't be able to boot CP/M from that disk if the CP/M BIOS was not compatible with that specific machine. The BIOS is technically part of CP/M, and is different to the BIOS built into the IBM PC and other boot ROMs. In CP/M parlance, the BIOS was the device driver layer that supported the floppy drive and terminal for a specific machine. Other than this CP/M was largely platform agnostic and, in principle, you only rewrote the BIOS to support a new platform.



          Because of these factors, users would usually get an appropriate version of CP/M directly from the manufacturer and seller of their particular computer. Apple II Z80 cards came with Apple CP/M for Disk II disks. Kaypro machines came with Kaypro CP/M for Kaypro disks. And so on.






          share|improve this answer





















          • 5





            I recall there was a CP/M program - Uniform - which purpose in life was to read and write a myriad of various CP/M-disks format (given the drive could do them). The shareware MS-DOS program 22dsk could do the same.

            – Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen
            Jan 10 at 22:07


















          6














          It was more complicated. CP/M disks were generally specific to a particular model of computer.



          During the CP/M era a great number of incompatible 8" and 5.25" floppy disk formats were in use by CP/M machines. There was no guarantee that two Z80 CP/M machines from different manufacturers could read each others' disks.



          Even if a machine could read another machine's disk format, it likely wouldn't be able to boot CP/M from that disk if the CP/M BIOS was not compatible with that specific machine. The BIOS is technically part of CP/M, and is different to the BIOS built into the IBM PC and other boot ROMs. In CP/M parlance, the BIOS was the device driver layer that supported the floppy drive and terminal for a specific machine. Other than this CP/M was largely platform agnostic and, in principle, you only rewrote the BIOS to support a new platform.



          Because of these factors, users would usually get an appropriate version of CP/M directly from the manufacturer and seller of their particular computer. Apple II Z80 cards came with Apple CP/M for Disk II disks. Kaypro machines came with Kaypro CP/M for Kaypro disks. And so on.






          share|improve this answer





















          • 5





            I recall there was a CP/M program - Uniform - which purpose in life was to read and write a myriad of various CP/M-disks format (given the drive could do them). The shareware MS-DOS program 22dsk could do the same.

            – Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen
            Jan 10 at 22:07
















          6












          6








          6







          It was more complicated. CP/M disks were generally specific to a particular model of computer.



          During the CP/M era a great number of incompatible 8" and 5.25" floppy disk formats were in use by CP/M machines. There was no guarantee that two Z80 CP/M machines from different manufacturers could read each others' disks.



          Even if a machine could read another machine's disk format, it likely wouldn't be able to boot CP/M from that disk if the CP/M BIOS was not compatible with that specific machine. The BIOS is technically part of CP/M, and is different to the BIOS built into the IBM PC and other boot ROMs. In CP/M parlance, the BIOS was the device driver layer that supported the floppy drive and terminal for a specific machine. Other than this CP/M was largely platform agnostic and, in principle, you only rewrote the BIOS to support a new platform.



          Because of these factors, users would usually get an appropriate version of CP/M directly from the manufacturer and seller of their particular computer. Apple II Z80 cards came with Apple CP/M for Disk II disks. Kaypro machines came with Kaypro CP/M for Kaypro disks. And so on.






          share|improve this answer















          It was more complicated. CP/M disks were generally specific to a particular model of computer.



          During the CP/M era a great number of incompatible 8" and 5.25" floppy disk formats were in use by CP/M machines. There was no guarantee that two Z80 CP/M machines from different manufacturers could read each others' disks.



          Even if a machine could read another machine's disk format, it likely wouldn't be able to boot CP/M from that disk if the CP/M BIOS was not compatible with that specific machine. The BIOS is technically part of CP/M, and is different to the BIOS built into the IBM PC and other boot ROMs. In CP/M parlance, the BIOS was the device driver layer that supported the floppy drive and terminal for a specific machine. Other than this CP/M was largely platform agnostic and, in principle, you only rewrote the BIOS to support a new platform.



          Because of these factors, users would usually get an appropriate version of CP/M directly from the manufacturer and seller of their particular computer. Apple II Z80 cards came with Apple CP/M for Disk II disks. Kaypro machines came with Kaypro CP/M for Kaypro disks. And so on.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Jan 10 at 21:44

























          answered Jan 10 at 21:38









          RETRACRETRAC

          75129




          75129








          • 5





            I recall there was a CP/M program - Uniform - which purpose in life was to read and write a myriad of various CP/M-disks format (given the drive could do them). The shareware MS-DOS program 22dsk could do the same.

            – Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen
            Jan 10 at 22:07
















          • 5





            I recall there was a CP/M program - Uniform - which purpose in life was to read and write a myriad of various CP/M-disks format (given the drive could do them). The shareware MS-DOS program 22dsk could do the same.

            – Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen
            Jan 10 at 22:07










          5




          5





          I recall there was a CP/M program - Uniform - which purpose in life was to read and write a myriad of various CP/M-disks format (given the drive could do them). The shareware MS-DOS program 22dsk could do the same.

          – Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen
          Jan 10 at 22:07







          I recall there was a CP/M program - Uniform - which purpose in life was to read and write a myriad of various CP/M-disks format (given the drive could do them). The shareware MS-DOS program 22dsk could do the same.

          – Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen
          Jan 10 at 22:07




















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          Required, but never shown












          Required, but never shown







          Required, but never shown

































          Required, but never shown














          Required, but never shown












          Required, but never shown







          Required, but never shown







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