Simple & Intuitive Statements that are Difficult to Prove












3












$begingroup$


Looking through the webcomic, I came across one of my favorite comics:



enter image description here



(from Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal)



It seems that people have an ongoing interest in results in mathematics that are true, but highly unintuitive, like the Banach-Tarski Paradox. However, what results are there that are seemingly obvious and intuitive, but difficult to prove (or perhaps have non-obvious intricacies)?



I feel that such examples are important for helping people understand the necessity of rigor or that seemingly obvious results are not at all obvious from a mathematical perspective.



(Personally, I don't feel that 'simple' number theory conjectures/results like the ABC conjecture fall under this category, because while simple to state, they are often very removed from reality.)










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    I don't know that I'd call the ABC conjecture simple to state (at least compared to, say, FLT.)
    $endgroup$
    – Mike Miller
    Mar 29 '14 at 1:31






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Relating to the statement in the comic more than your question: Obvious facts are generally easier to prove. However, when one is first learning mathematics, one generally does not develop the necessary machinery to prove anything from axioms, so proofs are done by reducing complex statements to the more obvious ones. In the case of already obvious statements there is no point to this, so the necessary machinery must be developed and used for there to be anything to do. However, this is still easier than proving more complex statements from equally basic principles.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex Becker
    Mar 29 '14 at 1:33










  • $begingroup$
    Agreed, but I wanted to reference an open question, though there are obviously other simpler to state open questions out there.
    $endgroup$
    – Hayden
    Mar 29 '14 at 1:33
















3












$begingroup$


Looking through the webcomic, I came across one of my favorite comics:



enter image description here



(from Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal)



It seems that people have an ongoing interest in results in mathematics that are true, but highly unintuitive, like the Banach-Tarski Paradox. However, what results are there that are seemingly obvious and intuitive, but difficult to prove (or perhaps have non-obvious intricacies)?



I feel that such examples are important for helping people understand the necessity of rigor or that seemingly obvious results are not at all obvious from a mathematical perspective.



(Personally, I don't feel that 'simple' number theory conjectures/results like the ABC conjecture fall under this category, because while simple to state, they are often very removed from reality.)










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    I don't know that I'd call the ABC conjecture simple to state (at least compared to, say, FLT.)
    $endgroup$
    – Mike Miller
    Mar 29 '14 at 1:31






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Relating to the statement in the comic more than your question: Obvious facts are generally easier to prove. However, when one is first learning mathematics, one generally does not develop the necessary machinery to prove anything from axioms, so proofs are done by reducing complex statements to the more obvious ones. In the case of already obvious statements there is no point to this, so the necessary machinery must be developed and used for there to be anything to do. However, this is still easier than proving more complex statements from equally basic principles.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex Becker
    Mar 29 '14 at 1:33










  • $begingroup$
    Agreed, but I wanted to reference an open question, though there are obviously other simpler to state open questions out there.
    $endgroup$
    – Hayden
    Mar 29 '14 at 1:33














3












3








3


2



$begingroup$


Looking through the webcomic, I came across one of my favorite comics:



enter image description here



(from Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal)



It seems that people have an ongoing interest in results in mathematics that are true, but highly unintuitive, like the Banach-Tarski Paradox. However, what results are there that are seemingly obvious and intuitive, but difficult to prove (or perhaps have non-obvious intricacies)?



I feel that such examples are important for helping people understand the necessity of rigor or that seemingly obvious results are not at all obvious from a mathematical perspective.



(Personally, I don't feel that 'simple' number theory conjectures/results like the ABC conjecture fall under this category, because while simple to state, they are often very removed from reality.)










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Looking through the webcomic, I came across one of my favorite comics:



enter image description here



(from Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal)



It seems that people have an ongoing interest in results in mathematics that are true, but highly unintuitive, like the Banach-Tarski Paradox. However, what results are there that are seemingly obvious and intuitive, but difficult to prove (or perhaps have non-obvious intricacies)?



I feel that such examples are important for helping people understand the necessity of rigor or that seemingly obvious results are not at all obvious from a mathematical perspective.



(Personally, I don't feel that 'simple' number theory conjectures/results like the ABC conjecture fall under this category, because while simple to state, they are often very removed from reality.)







soft-question big-list






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Mar 29 '14 at 1:31









Rahul

33.1k568169




33.1k568169










asked Mar 29 '14 at 1:24









HaydenHayden

13.7k12347




13.7k12347












  • $begingroup$
    I don't know that I'd call the ABC conjecture simple to state (at least compared to, say, FLT.)
    $endgroup$
    – Mike Miller
    Mar 29 '14 at 1:31






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Relating to the statement in the comic more than your question: Obvious facts are generally easier to prove. However, when one is first learning mathematics, one generally does not develop the necessary machinery to prove anything from axioms, so proofs are done by reducing complex statements to the more obvious ones. In the case of already obvious statements there is no point to this, so the necessary machinery must be developed and used for there to be anything to do. However, this is still easier than proving more complex statements from equally basic principles.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex Becker
    Mar 29 '14 at 1:33










  • $begingroup$
    Agreed, but I wanted to reference an open question, though there are obviously other simpler to state open questions out there.
    $endgroup$
    – Hayden
    Mar 29 '14 at 1:33


















  • $begingroup$
    I don't know that I'd call the ABC conjecture simple to state (at least compared to, say, FLT.)
    $endgroup$
    – Mike Miller
    Mar 29 '14 at 1:31






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Relating to the statement in the comic more than your question: Obvious facts are generally easier to prove. However, when one is first learning mathematics, one generally does not develop the necessary machinery to prove anything from axioms, so proofs are done by reducing complex statements to the more obvious ones. In the case of already obvious statements there is no point to this, so the necessary machinery must be developed and used for there to be anything to do. However, this is still easier than proving more complex statements from equally basic principles.
    $endgroup$
    – Alex Becker
    Mar 29 '14 at 1:33










  • $begingroup$
    Agreed, but I wanted to reference an open question, though there are obviously other simpler to state open questions out there.
    $endgroup$
    – Hayden
    Mar 29 '14 at 1:33
















$begingroup$
I don't know that I'd call the ABC conjecture simple to state (at least compared to, say, FLT.)
$endgroup$
– Mike Miller
Mar 29 '14 at 1:31




$begingroup$
I don't know that I'd call the ABC conjecture simple to state (at least compared to, say, FLT.)
$endgroup$
– Mike Miller
Mar 29 '14 at 1:31




1




1




$begingroup$
Relating to the statement in the comic more than your question: Obvious facts are generally easier to prove. However, when one is first learning mathematics, one generally does not develop the necessary machinery to prove anything from axioms, so proofs are done by reducing complex statements to the more obvious ones. In the case of already obvious statements there is no point to this, so the necessary machinery must be developed and used for there to be anything to do. However, this is still easier than proving more complex statements from equally basic principles.
$endgroup$
– Alex Becker
Mar 29 '14 at 1:33




$begingroup$
Relating to the statement in the comic more than your question: Obvious facts are generally easier to prove. However, when one is first learning mathematics, one generally does not develop the necessary machinery to prove anything from axioms, so proofs are done by reducing complex statements to the more obvious ones. In the case of already obvious statements there is no point to this, so the necessary machinery must be developed and used for there to be anything to do. However, this is still easier than proving more complex statements from equally basic principles.
$endgroup$
– Alex Becker
Mar 29 '14 at 1:33












$begingroup$
Agreed, but I wanted to reference an open question, though there are obviously other simpler to state open questions out there.
$endgroup$
– Hayden
Mar 29 '14 at 1:33




$begingroup$
Agreed, but I wanted to reference an open question, though there are obviously other simpler to state open questions out there.
$endgroup$
– Hayden
Mar 29 '14 at 1:33










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















9












$begingroup$

The Jordan curve theorem asserts that every a non-self-intersecting continuous loop divides the plane into an "interior" region bounded by the curve and an "exterior" region.



Another nice example is the P vs NP problem, which basically says verifying is easier than finding solutions. But it is still unsolved , one of the Clay Millennium problems.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    1












    $begingroup$

    Prove the reflexive property, or that $x = x$.



    http://www.tondering.dk/claus/sur16.pdf



    Crazy stuff.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      This is misleading, because if you're asking for a formal proof you need to give a formal statement; and a formal statement of "$x=x$ where $x$ is a surreal number" is definitely not simple,
      $endgroup$
      – Alex Becker
      Mar 29 '14 at 1:35










    • $begingroup$
      Yes. A more obvious fact, according to the expert graph, has a more difficult proof.
      $endgroup$
      – louie mcconnell
      Mar 29 '14 at 1:35










    • $begingroup$
      I'm not sure what your comment means. Can you clarify?
      $endgroup$
      – Alex Becker
      Mar 29 '14 at 2:14










    • $begingroup$
      The xkcd comic is implying that a very simple axiom can be very difficult to prove. This is one of the simplest axioms imaginable, with an extremely difficult proof.
      $endgroup$
      – louie mcconnell
      Mar 29 '14 at 2:40



















    0












    $begingroup$


    • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}forall z in mathbb{R} (x + y) + z = x + (y + z)$

    • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}x + y = y + x$

    • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}forall z in mathbb{R} (x times y) times z = x times (y times z)$

    • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}x times y = y times x$

    • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}forall z in mathbb{R} x times (y + z) = (x times y) + (x times z)$






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      9












      $begingroup$

      The Jordan curve theorem asserts that every a non-self-intersecting continuous loop divides the plane into an "interior" region bounded by the curve and an "exterior" region.



      Another nice example is the P vs NP problem, which basically says verifying is easier than finding solutions. But it is still unsolved , one of the Clay Millennium problems.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$


















        9












        $begingroup$

        The Jordan curve theorem asserts that every a non-self-intersecting continuous loop divides the plane into an "interior" region bounded by the curve and an "exterior" region.



        Another nice example is the P vs NP problem, which basically says verifying is easier than finding solutions. But it is still unsolved , one of the Clay Millennium problems.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$
















          9












          9








          9





          $begingroup$

          The Jordan curve theorem asserts that every a non-self-intersecting continuous loop divides the plane into an "interior" region bounded by the curve and an "exterior" region.



          Another nice example is the P vs NP problem, which basically says verifying is easier than finding solutions. But it is still unsolved , one of the Clay Millennium problems.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          The Jordan curve theorem asserts that every a non-self-intersecting continuous loop divides the plane into an "interior" region bounded by the curve and an "exterior" region.



          Another nice example is the P vs NP problem, which basically says verifying is easier than finding solutions. But it is still unsolved , one of the Clay Millennium problems.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Mar 29 '14 at 1:37









          MohanMohan

          5,9541252101




          5,9541252101























              1












              $begingroup$

              Prove the reflexive property, or that $x = x$.



              http://www.tondering.dk/claus/sur16.pdf



              Crazy stuff.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$













              • $begingroup$
                This is misleading, because if you're asking for a formal proof you need to give a formal statement; and a formal statement of "$x=x$ where $x$ is a surreal number" is definitely not simple,
                $endgroup$
                – Alex Becker
                Mar 29 '14 at 1:35










              • $begingroup$
                Yes. A more obvious fact, according to the expert graph, has a more difficult proof.
                $endgroup$
                – louie mcconnell
                Mar 29 '14 at 1:35










              • $begingroup$
                I'm not sure what your comment means. Can you clarify?
                $endgroup$
                – Alex Becker
                Mar 29 '14 at 2:14










              • $begingroup$
                The xkcd comic is implying that a very simple axiom can be very difficult to prove. This is one of the simplest axioms imaginable, with an extremely difficult proof.
                $endgroup$
                – louie mcconnell
                Mar 29 '14 at 2:40
















              1












              $begingroup$

              Prove the reflexive property, or that $x = x$.



              http://www.tondering.dk/claus/sur16.pdf



              Crazy stuff.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$













              • $begingroup$
                This is misleading, because if you're asking for a formal proof you need to give a formal statement; and a formal statement of "$x=x$ where $x$ is a surreal number" is definitely not simple,
                $endgroup$
                – Alex Becker
                Mar 29 '14 at 1:35










              • $begingroup$
                Yes. A more obvious fact, according to the expert graph, has a more difficult proof.
                $endgroup$
                – louie mcconnell
                Mar 29 '14 at 1:35










              • $begingroup$
                I'm not sure what your comment means. Can you clarify?
                $endgroup$
                – Alex Becker
                Mar 29 '14 at 2:14










              • $begingroup$
                The xkcd comic is implying that a very simple axiom can be very difficult to prove. This is one of the simplest axioms imaginable, with an extremely difficult proof.
                $endgroup$
                – louie mcconnell
                Mar 29 '14 at 2:40














              1












              1








              1





              $begingroup$

              Prove the reflexive property, or that $x = x$.



              http://www.tondering.dk/claus/sur16.pdf



              Crazy stuff.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$



              Prove the reflexive property, or that $x = x$.



              http://www.tondering.dk/claus/sur16.pdf



              Crazy stuff.







              share|cite|improve this answer














              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer








              edited Mar 29 '14 at 1:34

























              answered Mar 29 '14 at 1:28









              louie mcconnelllouie mcconnell

              1,4731723




              1,4731723












              • $begingroup$
                This is misleading, because if you're asking for a formal proof you need to give a formal statement; and a formal statement of "$x=x$ where $x$ is a surreal number" is definitely not simple,
                $endgroup$
                – Alex Becker
                Mar 29 '14 at 1:35










              • $begingroup$
                Yes. A more obvious fact, according to the expert graph, has a more difficult proof.
                $endgroup$
                – louie mcconnell
                Mar 29 '14 at 1:35










              • $begingroup$
                I'm not sure what your comment means. Can you clarify?
                $endgroup$
                – Alex Becker
                Mar 29 '14 at 2:14










              • $begingroup$
                The xkcd comic is implying that a very simple axiom can be very difficult to prove. This is one of the simplest axioms imaginable, with an extremely difficult proof.
                $endgroup$
                – louie mcconnell
                Mar 29 '14 at 2:40


















              • $begingroup$
                This is misleading, because if you're asking for a formal proof you need to give a formal statement; and a formal statement of "$x=x$ where $x$ is a surreal number" is definitely not simple,
                $endgroup$
                – Alex Becker
                Mar 29 '14 at 1:35










              • $begingroup$
                Yes. A more obvious fact, according to the expert graph, has a more difficult proof.
                $endgroup$
                – louie mcconnell
                Mar 29 '14 at 1:35










              • $begingroup$
                I'm not sure what your comment means. Can you clarify?
                $endgroup$
                – Alex Becker
                Mar 29 '14 at 2:14










              • $begingroup$
                The xkcd comic is implying that a very simple axiom can be very difficult to prove. This is one of the simplest axioms imaginable, with an extremely difficult proof.
                $endgroup$
                – louie mcconnell
                Mar 29 '14 at 2:40
















              $begingroup$
              This is misleading, because if you're asking for a formal proof you need to give a formal statement; and a formal statement of "$x=x$ where $x$ is a surreal number" is definitely not simple,
              $endgroup$
              – Alex Becker
              Mar 29 '14 at 1:35




              $begingroup$
              This is misleading, because if you're asking for a formal proof you need to give a formal statement; and a formal statement of "$x=x$ where $x$ is a surreal number" is definitely not simple,
              $endgroup$
              – Alex Becker
              Mar 29 '14 at 1:35












              $begingroup$
              Yes. A more obvious fact, according to the expert graph, has a more difficult proof.
              $endgroup$
              – louie mcconnell
              Mar 29 '14 at 1:35




              $begingroup$
              Yes. A more obvious fact, according to the expert graph, has a more difficult proof.
              $endgroup$
              – louie mcconnell
              Mar 29 '14 at 1:35












              $begingroup$
              I'm not sure what your comment means. Can you clarify?
              $endgroup$
              – Alex Becker
              Mar 29 '14 at 2:14




              $begingroup$
              I'm not sure what your comment means. Can you clarify?
              $endgroup$
              – Alex Becker
              Mar 29 '14 at 2:14












              $begingroup$
              The xkcd comic is implying that a very simple axiom can be very difficult to prove. This is one of the simplest axioms imaginable, with an extremely difficult proof.
              $endgroup$
              – louie mcconnell
              Mar 29 '14 at 2:40




              $begingroup$
              The xkcd comic is implying that a very simple axiom can be very difficult to prove. This is one of the simplest axioms imaginable, with an extremely difficult proof.
              $endgroup$
              – louie mcconnell
              Mar 29 '14 at 2:40











              0












              $begingroup$


              • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}forall z in mathbb{R} (x + y) + z = x + (y + z)$

              • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}x + y = y + x$

              • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}forall z in mathbb{R} (x times y) times z = x times (y times z)$

              • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}x times y = y times x$

              • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}forall z in mathbb{R} x times (y + z) = (x times y) + (x times z)$






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$


















                0












                $begingroup$


                • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}forall z in mathbb{R} (x + y) + z = x + (y + z)$

                • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}x + y = y + x$

                • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}forall z in mathbb{R} (x times y) times z = x times (y times z)$

                • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}x times y = y times x$

                • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}forall z in mathbb{R} x times (y + z) = (x times y) + (x times z)$






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$
















                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$


                  • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}forall z in mathbb{R} (x + y) + z = x + (y + z)$

                  • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}x + y = y + x$

                  • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}forall z in mathbb{R} (x times y) times z = x times (y times z)$

                  • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}x times y = y times x$

                  • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}forall z in mathbb{R} x times (y + z) = (x times y) + (x times z)$






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$




                  • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}forall z in mathbb{R} (x + y) + z = x + (y + z)$

                  • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}x + y = y + x$

                  • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}forall z in mathbb{R} (x times y) times z = x times (y times z)$

                  • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}x times y = y times x$

                  • $forall x in mathbb{R}forall y in mathbb{R}forall z in mathbb{R} x times (y + z) = (x times y) + (x times z)$







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Jan 10 at 20:39









                  TimothyTimothy

                  306213




                  306213






























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