Prove a recursive function $f(p_i) = (p_i/2)g(p_i) to infty$ as $p_i to infty$?












1












$begingroup$


Let's say we have a set of numbers ${5,9,13,17,21,ldots, 5+4i,ldots}$ and each $p_i$ is a member of this set, namely $p_0 = 5, p_1 = 9, p_2 = 13$ , etc.



Consider the following functions defined recursively:
begin{align}
g(p_i) &= frac{p_i - 2}{p_i} g(p_{i-1}) & g(5) &= frac35 \
f(p_i) &= frac{ p_i}2 g(p_i) &&
end{align}



How does one prove that $f(p_i)$ goes to infinity as $p_i$ goes to infinity?










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$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    I would try computing the first values, and then try to prove, using induction on $i$ a statement of the form "for all $igeq 5$, $f(p_i)geq ci$ for some constant $c$ (that you would somehow guess computing the first terms).
    $endgroup$
    – J.F
    Feb 1 at 22:04
















1












$begingroup$


Let's say we have a set of numbers ${5,9,13,17,21,ldots, 5+4i,ldots}$ and each $p_i$ is a member of this set, namely $p_0 = 5, p_1 = 9, p_2 = 13$ , etc.



Consider the following functions defined recursively:
begin{align}
g(p_i) &= frac{p_i - 2}{p_i} g(p_{i-1}) & g(5) &= frac35 \
f(p_i) &= frac{ p_i}2 g(p_i) &&
end{align}



How does one prove that $f(p_i)$ goes to infinity as $p_i$ goes to infinity?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    I would try computing the first values, and then try to prove, using induction on $i$ a statement of the form "for all $igeq 5$, $f(p_i)geq ci$ for some constant $c$ (that you would somehow guess computing the first terms).
    $endgroup$
    – J.F
    Feb 1 at 22:04














1












1








1





$begingroup$


Let's say we have a set of numbers ${5,9,13,17,21,ldots, 5+4i,ldots}$ and each $p_i$ is a member of this set, namely $p_0 = 5, p_1 = 9, p_2 = 13$ , etc.



Consider the following functions defined recursively:
begin{align}
g(p_i) &= frac{p_i - 2}{p_i} g(p_{i-1}) & g(5) &= frac35 \
f(p_i) &= frac{ p_i}2 g(p_i) &&
end{align}



How does one prove that $f(p_i)$ goes to infinity as $p_i$ goes to infinity?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Let's say we have a set of numbers ${5,9,13,17,21,ldots, 5+4i,ldots}$ and each $p_i$ is a member of this set, namely $p_0 = 5, p_1 = 9, p_2 = 13$ , etc.



Consider the following functions defined recursively:
begin{align}
g(p_i) &= frac{p_i - 2}{p_i} g(p_{i-1}) & g(5) &= frac35 \
f(p_i) &= frac{ p_i}2 g(p_i) &&
end{align}



How does one prove that $f(p_i)$ goes to infinity as $p_i$ goes to infinity?







sequences-and-series limits discrete-mathematics recursion computational-mathematics






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share|cite|improve this question













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edited Feb 2 at 2:54









Lee David Chung Lin

4,47841242




4,47841242










asked Feb 1 at 21:57









temp wattstemp watts

1126




1126












  • $begingroup$
    I would try computing the first values, and then try to prove, using induction on $i$ a statement of the form "for all $igeq 5$, $f(p_i)geq ci$ for some constant $c$ (that you would somehow guess computing the first terms).
    $endgroup$
    – J.F
    Feb 1 at 22:04


















  • $begingroup$
    I would try computing the first values, and then try to prove, using induction on $i$ a statement of the form "for all $igeq 5$, $f(p_i)geq ci$ for some constant $c$ (that you would somehow guess computing the first terms).
    $endgroup$
    – J.F
    Feb 1 at 22:04
















$begingroup$
I would try computing the first values, and then try to prove, using induction on $i$ a statement of the form "for all $igeq 5$, $f(p_i)geq ci$ for some constant $c$ (that you would somehow guess computing the first terms).
$endgroup$
– J.F
Feb 1 at 22:04




$begingroup$
I would try computing the first values, and then try to prove, using induction on $i$ a statement of the form "for all $igeq 5$, $f(p_i)geq ci$ for some constant $c$ (that you would somehow guess computing the first terms).
$endgroup$
– J.F
Feb 1 at 22:04










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















0












$begingroup$

The given recurrence equations are
begin{align}
g(p_i) &= frac{p_i - 2}{p_i} g(p_{i-1}) tag{1} \
f(p_i) &= frac{ p_i}2 g(p_i) tag{2}
end{align}

with the initial condition $displaystyle g(5) = frac35$.



Plug Eq.(1) into Eq.(2) we have at $i$ and $i+1$
begin{align}
f(p_i) &= frac{ p_i }2 g(p_i) = frac{ p_i - 2 }2 g( p_{i - 1} ) tag{3} \
f(p_{i+1}) &= frac{ p_{i+1} }2 g(p_{i+1}) = frac{ p_{i+1} - 2 }2 g( p_i ) tag{4}
end{align}

At the same time, reversing Eq.(2) one has $displaystyle g(p_i) = frac2{ p_i } f(p_i) $. Substitute this into Eq.(4) to obtain
$$ f(p_{i+1}) = frac{ p_{i+1} - 2 }{ p_i } f(p_i) = frac{ 7 + 4i }{ 5 + 4i } f(p_i) $$
since by definition $p_i = 5+4i$ and $p_{i+1} = 9 + 4i$.



The multiplication factor $displaystyle frac{ 7 + 4i }{ 5 + 4i } $ is strictly larger than unity while the initial $f(5) = frac32 > 0$ therefore $f( p_i ) to infty$ as $i to infty$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for your response. However, (7+4i)/(5+4i) approaches 1 as i goes to infinity. This may mean that the function can converge to a constant rather than go to infinity. Can you provide a more rigorous proof?
    $endgroup$
    – temp watts
    Feb 3 at 16:49












  • $begingroup$
    The situation you're worrying does not happen here. The textbooks by Rudin and Apostol are rigorous enough by most standards. See the cited restuls in wiki. In particular, the bullet below the line "if $r>1$, the series diverges" .
    $endgroup$
    – Lee David Chung Lin
    Feb 4 at 7:35












  • $begingroup$
    The wiki page you refer to says it is inconclusive since L=1 as n-> infinity. "This illustrates that when L = 1, the series may converge or diverge, and hence the original ratio test is inconclusive. In such cases, more refined tests are required to determine convergence or divergence. "
    $endgroup$
    – temp watts
    Feb 4 at 17:18










  • $begingroup$
    You'er not reading the part I was referring to. Please read my previous comment again carefully and don't just click on the link and randomly look for what you recognize. You should keep reading a few lines further down those you quoted in your comment.
    $endgroup$
    – Lee David Chung Lin
    Feb 5 at 8:15














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0












$begingroup$

The given recurrence equations are
begin{align}
g(p_i) &= frac{p_i - 2}{p_i} g(p_{i-1}) tag{1} \
f(p_i) &= frac{ p_i}2 g(p_i) tag{2}
end{align}

with the initial condition $displaystyle g(5) = frac35$.



Plug Eq.(1) into Eq.(2) we have at $i$ and $i+1$
begin{align}
f(p_i) &= frac{ p_i }2 g(p_i) = frac{ p_i - 2 }2 g( p_{i - 1} ) tag{3} \
f(p_{i+1}) &= frac{ p_{i+1} }2 g(p_{i+1}) = frac{ p_{i+1} - 2 }2 g( p_i ) tag{4}
end{align}

At the same time, reversing Eq.(2) one has $displaystyle g(p_i) = frac2{ p_i } f(p_i) $. Substitute this into Eq.(4) to obtain
$$ f(p_{i+1}) = frac{ p_{i+1} - 2 }{ p_i } f(p_i) = frac{ 7 + 4i }{ 5 + 4i } f(p_i) $$
since by definition $p_i = 5+4i$ and $p_{i+1} = 9 + 4i$.



The multiplication factor $displaystyle frac{ 7 + 4i }{ 5 + 4i } $ is strictly larger than unity while the initial $f(5) = frac32 > 0$ therefore $f( p_i ) to infty$ as $i to infty$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for your response. However, (7+4i)/(5+4i) approaches 1 as i goes to infinity. This may mean that the function can converge to a constant rather than go to infinity. Can you provide a more rigorous proof?
    $endgroup$
    – temp watts
    Feb 3 at 16:49












  • $begingroup$
    The situation you're worrying does not happen here. The textbooks by Rudin and Apostol are rigorous enough by most standards. See the cited restuls in wiki. In particular, the bullet below the line "if $r>1$, the series diverges" .
    $endgroup$
    – Lee David Chung Lin
    Feb 4 at 7:35












  • $begingroup$
    The wiki page you refer to says it is inconclusive since L=1 as n-> infinity. "This illustrates that when L = 1, the series may converge or diverge, and hence the original ratio test is inconclusive. In such cases, more refined tests are required to determine convergence or divergence. "
    $endgroup$
    – temp watts
    Feb 4 at 17:18










  • $begingroup$
    You'er not reading the part I was referring to. Please read my previous comment again carefully and don't just click on the link and randomly look for what you recognize. You should keep reading a few lines further down those you quoted in your comment.
    $endgroup$
    – Lee David Chung Lin
    Feb 5 at 8:15


















0












$begingroup$

The given recurrence equations are
begin{align}
g(p_i) &= frac{p_i - 2}{p_i} g(p_{i-1}) tag{1} \
f(p_i) &= frac{ p_i}2 g(p_i) tag{2}
end{align}

with the initial condition $displaystyle g(5) = frac35$.



Plug Eq.(1) into Eq.(2) we have at $i$ and $i+1$
begin{align}
f(p_i) &= frac{ p_i }2 g(p_i) = frac{ p_i - 2 }2 g( p_{i - 1} ) tag{3} \
f(p_{i+1}) &= frac{ p_{i+1} }2 g(p_{i+1}) = frac{ p_{i+1} - 2 }2 g( p_i ) tag{4}
end{align}

At the same time, reversing Eq.(2) one has $displaystyle g(p_i) = frac2{ p_i } f(p_i) $. Substitute this into Eq.(4) to obtain
$$ f(p_{i+1}) = frac{ p_{i+1} - 2 }{ p_i } f(p_i) = frac{ 7 + 4i }{ 5 + 4i } f(p_i) $$
since by definition $p_i = 5+4i$ and $p_{i+1} = 9 + 4i$.



The multiplication factor $displaystyle frac{ 7 + 4i }{ 5 + 4i } $ is strictly larger than unity while the initial $f(5) = frac32 > 0$ therefore $f( p_i ) to infty$ as $i to infty$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for your response. However, (7+4i)/(5+4i) approaches 1 as i goes to infinity. This may mean that the function can converge to a constant rather than go to infinity. Can you provide a more rigorous proof?
    $endgroup$
    – temp watts
    Feb 3 at 16:49












  • $begingroup$
    The situation you're worrying does not happen here. The textbooks by Rudin and Apostol are rigorous enough by most standards. See the cited restuls in wiki. In particular, the bullet below the line "if $r>1$, the series diverges" .
    $endgroup$
    – Lee David Chung Lin
    Feb 4 at 7:35












  • $begingroup$
    The wiki page you refer to says it is inconclusive since L=1 as n-> infinity. "This illustrates that when L = 1, the series may converge or diverge, and hence the original ratio test is inconclusive. In such cases, more refined tests are required to determine convergence or divergence. "
    $endgroup$
    – temp watts
    Feb 4 at 17:18










  • $begingroup$
    You'er not reading the part I was referring to. Please read my previous comment again carefully and don't just click on the link and randomly look for what you recognize. You should keep reading a few lines further down those you quoted in your comment.
    $endgroup$
    – Lee David Chung Lin
    Feb 5 at 8:15
















0












0








0





$begingroup$

The given recurrence equations are
begin{align}
g(p_i) &= frac{p_i - 2}{p_i} g(p_{i-1}) tag{1} \
f(p_i) &= frac{ p_i}2 g(p_i) tag{2}
end{align}

with the initial condition $displaystyle g(5) = frac35$.



Plug Eq.(1) into Eq.(2) we have at $i$ and $i+1$
begin{align}
f(p_i) &= frac{ p_i }2 g(p_i) = frac{ p_i - 2 }2 g( p_{i - 1} ) tag{3} \
f(p_{i+1}) &= frac{ p_{i+1} }2 g(p_{i+1}) = frac{ p_{i+1} - 2 }2 g( p_i ) tag{4}
end{align}

At the same time, reversing Eq.(2) one has $displaystyle g(p_i) = frac2{ p_i } f(p_i) $. Substitute this into Eq.(4) to obtain
$$ f(p_{i+1}) = frac{ p_{i+1} - 2 }{ p_i } f(p_i) = frac{ 7 + 4i }{ 5 + 4i } f(p_i) $$
since by definition $p_i = 5+4i$ and $p_{i+1} = 9 + 4i$.



The multiplication factor $displaystyle frac{ 7 + 4i }{ 5 + 4i } $ is strictly larger than unity while the initial $f(5) = frac32 > 0$ therefore $f( p_i ) to infty$ as $i to infty$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$



The given recurrence equations are
begin{align}
g(p_i) &= frac{p_i - 2}{p_i} g(p_{i-1}) tag{1} \
f(p_i) &= frac{ p_i}2 g(p_i) tag{2}
end{align}

with the initial condition $displaystyle g(5) = frac35$.



Plug Eq.(1) into Eq.(2) we have at $i$ and $i+1$
begin{align}
f(p_i) &= frac{ p_i }2 g(p_i) = frac{ p_i - 2 }2 g( p_{i - 1} ) tag{3} \
f(p_{i+1}) &= frac{ p_{i+1} }2 g(p_{i+1}) = frac{ p_{i+1} - 2 }2 g( p_i ) tag{4}
end{align}

At the same time, reversing Eq.(2) one has $displaystyle g(p_i) = frac2{ p_i } f(p_i) $. Substitute this into Eq.(4) to obtain
$$ f(p_{i+1}) = frac{ p_{i+1} - 2 }{ p_i } f(p_i) = frac{ 7 + 4i }{ 5 + 4i } f(p_i) $$
since by definition $p_i = 5+4i$ and $p_{i+1} = 9 + 4i$.



The multiplication factor $displaystyle frac{ 7 + 4i }{ 5 + 4i } $ is strictly larger than unity while the initial $f(5) = frac32 > 0$ therefore $f( p_i ) to infty$ as $i to infty$.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Feb 3 at 3:34









Lee David Chung LinLee David Chung Lin

4,47841242




4,47841242












  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for your response. However, (7+4i)/(5+4i) approaches 1 as i goes to infinity. This may mean that the function can converge to a constant rather than go to infinity. Can you provide a more rigorous proof?
    $endgroup$
    – temp watts
    Feb 3 at 16:49












  • $begingroup$
    The situation you're worrying does not happen here. The textbooks by Rudin and Apostol are rigorous enough by most standards. See the cited restuls in wiki. In particular, the bullet below the line "if $r>1$, the series diverges" .
    $endgroup$
    – Lee David Chung Lin
    Feb 4 at 7:35












  • $begingroup$
    The wiki page you refer to says it is inconclusive since L=1 as n-> infinity. "This illustrates that when L = 1, the series may converge or diverge, and hence the original ratio test is inconclusive. In such cases, more refined tests are required to determine convergence or divergence. "
    $endgroup$
    – temp watts
    Feb 4 at 17:18










  • $begingroup$
    You'er not reading the part I was referring to. Please read my previous comment again carefully and don't just click on the link and randomly look for what you recognize. You should keep reading a few lines further down those you quoted in your comment.
    $endgroup$
    – Lee David Chung Lin
    Feb 5 at 8:15




















  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for your response. However, (7+4i)/(5+4i) approaches 1 as i goes to infinity. This may mean that the function can converge to a constant rather than go to infinity. Can you provide a more rigorous proof?
    $endgroup$
    – temp watts
    Feb 3 at 16:49












  • $begingroup$
    The situation you're worrying does not happen here. The textbooks by Rudin and Apostol are rigorous enough by most standards. See the cited restuls in wiki. In particular, the bullet below the line "if $r>1$, the series diverges" .
    $endgroup$
    – Lee David Chung Lin
    Feb 4 at 7:35












  • $begingroup$
    The wiki page you refer to says it is inconclusive since L=1 as n-> infinity. "This illustrates that when L = 1, the series may converge or diverge, and hence the original ratio test is inconclusive. In such cases, more refined tests are required to determine convergence or divergence. "
    $endgroup$
    – temp watts
    Feb 4 at 17:18










  • $begingroup$
    You'er not reading the part I was referring to. Please read my previous comment again carefully and don't just click on the link and randomly look for what you recognize. You should keep reading a few lines further down those you quoted in your comment.
    $endgroup$
    – Lee David Chung Lin
    Feb 5 at 8:15


















$begingroup$
Thank you for your response. However, (7+4i)/(5+4i) approaches 1 as i goes to infinity. This may mean that the function can converge to a constant rather than go to infinity. Can you provide a more rigorous proof?
$endgroup$
– temp watts
Feb 3 at 16:49






$begingroup$
Thank you for your response. However, (7+4i)/(5+4i) approaches 1 as i goes to infinity. This may mean that the function can converge to a constant rather than go to infinity. Can you provide a more rigorous proof?
$endgroup$
– temp watts
Feb 3 at 16:49














$begingroup$
The situation you're worrying does not happen here. The textbooks by Rudin and Apostol are rigorous enough by most standards. See the cited restuls in wiki. In particular, the bullet below the line "if $r>1$, the series diverges" .
$endgroup$
– Lee David Chung Lin
Feb 4 at 7:35






$begingroup$
The situation you're worrying does not happen here. The textbooks by Rudin and Apostol are rigorous enough by most standards. See the cited restuls in wiki. In particular, the bullet below the line "if $r>1$, the series diverges" .
$endgroup$
– Lee David Chung Lin
Feb 4 at 7:35














$begingroup$
The wiki page you refer to says it is inconclusive since L=1 as n-> infinity. "This illustrates that when L = 1, the series may converge or diverge, and hence the original ratio test is inconclusive. In such cases, more refined tests are required to determine convergence or divergence. "
$endgroup$
– temp watts
Feb 4 at 17:18




$begingroup$
The wiki page you refer to says it is inconclusive since L=1 as n-> infinity. "This illustrates that when L = 1, the series may converge or diverge, and hence the original ratio test is inconclusive. In such cases, more refined tests are required to determine convergence or divergence. "
$endgroup$
– temp watts
Feb 4 at 17:18












$begingroup$
You'er not reading the part I was referring to. Please read my previous comment again carefully and don't just click on the link and randomly look for what you recognize. You should keep reading a few lines further down those you quoted in your comment.
$endgroup$
– Lee David Chung Lin
Feb 5 at 8:15






$begingroup$
You'er not reading the part I was referring to. Please read my previous comment again carefully and don't just click on the link and randomly look for what you recognize. You should keep reading a few lines further down those you quoted in your comment.
$endgroup$
– Lee David Chung Lin
Feb 5 at 8:15




















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