What is the amount of time a suspected woman needs to be secluded to be considered a Sotah?

4

The Gemara lists a series of opinions (9 by my count) in Sotah 4a as to how long the amount of secluded time must be for a forewarned woman to be considered a potential Sotah.

Do we know which Tanna we pasken like and practically speaking, what amount of time this would be considered nowadays?

halacha talmud-gemara sotah-secluded-woman yichud-seclusion tractate-sotah

share|improve this question

edited Jan 28 at 23:44

user15464

5,6751069

asked Jan 28 at 22:47

alichtalicht

2,3801633

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  A starting point might be Even Ha'ezer 178:4 (courtesy of Eyn Mishpat)
  
  – b a
  Jan 28 at 23:10
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

4

The Gemara lists a series of opinions (9 by my count) in Sotah 4a as to how long the amount of secluded time must be for a forewarned woman to be considered a potential Sotah.

Do we know which Tanna we pasken like and practically speaking, what amount of time this would be considered nowadays?

halacha talmud-gemara sotah-secluded-woman yichud-seclusion tractate-sotah

share|improve this question

edited Jan 28 at 23:44

user15464

5,6751069

asked Jan 28 at 22:47

alichtalicht

2,3801633

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  A starting point might be Even Ha'ezer 178:4 (courtesy of Eyn Mishpat)
  
  – b a
  Jan 28 at 23:10
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

4

4

4

The Gemara lists a series of opinions (9 by my count) in Sotah 4a as to how long the amount of secluded time must be for a forewarned woman to be considered a potential Sotah.

Do we know which Tanna we pasken like and practically speaking, what amount of time this would be considered nowadays?

halacha talmud-gemara sotah-secluded-woman yichud-seclusion tractate-sotah

share|improve this question

edited Jan 28 at 23:44

user15464

5,6751069

asked Jan 28 at 22:47

alichtalicht

2,3801633

The Gemara lists a series of opinions (9 by my count) in Sotah 4a as to how long the amount of secluded time must be for a forewarned woman to be considered a potential Sotah.

Do we know which Tanna we pasken like and practically speaking, what amount of time this would be considered nowadays?

halacha talmud-gemara sotah-secluded-woman yichud-seclusion tractate-sotah

halacha talmud-gemara sotah-secluded-woman yichud-seclusion tractate-sotah

share|improve this question

edited Jan 28 at 23:44

user15464

5,6751069

asked Jan 28 at 22:47

alichtalicht

2,3801633

share|improve this question

edited Jan 28 at 23:44

user15464

5,6751069

asked Jan 28 at 22:47

alichtalicht

2,3801633

share|improve this question

share|improve this question

edited Jan 28 at 23:44

user15464

5,6751069

edited Jan 28 at 23:44

user15464

5,6751069

edited Jan 28 at 23:44

user15464

5,6751069

5,6751069

asked Jan 28 at 22:47

alichtalicht

2,3801633

asked Jan 28 at 22:47

alichtalicht

2,3801633

asked Jan 28 at 22:47

alichtalicht

2,3801633

2,3801633

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  A starting point might be Even Ha'ezer 178:4 (courtesy of Eyn Mishpat)
  
  – b a
  Jan 28 at 23:10
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  A starting point might be Even Ha'ezer 178:4 (courtesy of Eyn Mishpat)
  
  – b a
  Jan 28 at 23:10
  

  
  
  
  

1

1

A starting point might be Even Ha'ezer 178:4 (courtesy of Eyn Mishpat)

– b a
Jan 28 at 23:10

A starting point might be Even Ha'ezer 178:4 (courtesy of Eyn Mishpat)

– b a
Jan 28 at 23:10

add a comment | 

1 Answer
1

active

oldest

votes

5

Rambam Hilchos Sotah 1,2 Paskens like Rabbi Akiva the time for seclusion is to fry an egg and swallow it.

שהתה עמו כדי טומאה שהוא כדי לצלות ביצה ולגמעה הרי זו אסורה על בעלה עד שתשתה מי המרים ויבדק הדבר

Kesef Mishna

ומה שכתב שהוא כדי לצלות ביצה ולגמעה. ברייתא שם (דף ד') פלוגתא ופסק כר"ע:

Rashi Sotah 4a explains that with Sotah who has a history of being with this man we assume she was already been seduced before seclusion so we don't include seduction time :

טומאה ביאה לחודה דאיכא למימר קודם הסתירה נתרצית לו

Tosfos says in the name of Yerushalmi we have to add on the time it takes for them to remove their vestige:

בירושלמי כל אלין שיעורין אחר התרת סינר

The Minchas Yitchak 4,94 says this time of seclusion is 5 minutes,

Though the Dvar Halacha teshuva 11 says that this time is merely 35 seconds (one could assume this does not include removing vestiges)

share|improve this answer

edited Jan 29 at 18:22

yosefkorn

585210

answered Jan 28 at 23:10

user15464user15464

5,6751069

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Minchas yitzchak only says that to be machmir and be yotzei midei safek. even according to him, it should be longer. And I don't know who the devar halacha is but there is no way that you can roast an egg and swallow it in 35 seconds.
  
  – רבות מחשבות
  Jan 29 at 0:43
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @רבותמחשבות do you mean 5 minutes is Machmir to make sure the Chosson satys with the Kalla in the Yichud room?
  
  – user15464
  Jan 29 at 0:46
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I mean I read the teshuvah and he says that this shitah would be hard to approximate, and the 5 minutes would be yotzei midei safek (it sounds like for a case of sotah, not yichud, and 5 minutes would be the minimum shiur)
  
  – רבות מחשבות
  Jan 29 at 0:49
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  note that many poskim understand the shiur of yichud in general to be longer than the shiur of yichud by a sotah, see R' Moshe's teshuvah.
  
  – רבות מחשבות
  Jan 29 at 0:49
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @רבותמחשבות also remember tosfos who says taking of the clothes is not included in the time, i assume 35 seconds is probably when they are at such a stage
  
  – user15464
  Jan 29 at 0:54
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 9 more comments

1 Answer
1

active

oldest

votes

1 Answer
1

active

oldest

votes

active

oldest

votes

active

oldest

votes

5

Rambam Hilchos Sotah 1,2 Paskens like Rabbi Akiva the time for seclusion is to fry an egg and swallow it.

שהתה עמו כדי טומאה שהוא כדי לצלות ביצה ולגמעה הרי זו אסורה על בעלה עד שתשתה מי המרים ויבדק הדבר

Kesef Mishna

ומה שכתב שהוא כדי לצלות ביצה ולגמעה. ברייתא שם (דף ד') פלוגתא ופסק כר"ע:

Rashi Sotah 4a explains that with Sotah who has a history of being with this man we assume she was already been seduced before seclusion so we don't include seduction time :

טומאה ביאה לחודה דאיכא למימר קודם הסתירה נתרצית לו

Tosfos says in the name of Yerushalmi we have to add on the time it takes for them to remove their vestige:

בירושלמי כל אלין שיעורין אחר התרת סינר

The Minchas Yitchak 4,94 says this time of seclusion is 5 minutes,

Though the Dvar Halacha teshuva 11 says that this time is merely 35 seconds (one could assume this does not include removing vestiges)

share|improve this answer

edited Jan 29 at 18:22

yosefkorn

585210

answered Jan 28 at 23:10

user15464user15464

5,6751069

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Minchas yitzchak only says that to be machmir and be yotzei midei safek. even according to him, it should be longer. And I don't know who the devar halacha is but there is no way that you can roast an egg and swallow it in 35 seconds.
  
  – רבות מחשבות
  Jan 29 at 0:43
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @רבותמחשבות do you mean 5 minutes is Machmir to make sure the Chosson satys with the Kalla in the Yichud room?
  
  – user15464
  Jan 29 at 0:46
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I mean I read the teshuvah and he says that this shitah would be hard to approximate, and the 5 minutes would be yotzei midei safek (it sounds like for a case of sotah, not yichud, and 5 minutes would be the minimum shiur)
  
  – רבות מחשבות
  Jan 29 at 0:49
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  note that many poskim understand the shiur of yichud in general to be longer than the shiur of yichud by a sotah, see R' Moshe's teshuvah.
  
  – רבות מחשבות
  Jan 29 at 0:49
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @רבותמחשבות also remember tosfos who says taking of the clothes is not included in the time, i assume 35 seconds is probably when they are at such a stage
  
  – user15464
  Jan 29 at 0:54
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 9 more comments

5

Rambam Hilchos Sotah 1,2 Paskens like Rabbi Akiva the time for seclusion is to fry an egg and swallow it.

שהתה עמו כדי טומאה שהוא כדי לצלות ביצה ולגמעה הרי זו אסורה על בעלה עד שתשתה מי המרים ויבדק הדבר

Kesef Mishna

ומה שכתב שהוא כדי לצלות ביצה ולגמעה. ברייתא שם (דף ד') פלוגתא ופסק כר"ע:

Rashi Sotah 4a explains that with Sotah who has a history of being with this man we assume she was already been seduced before seclusion so we don't include seduction time :

טומאה ביאה לחודה דאיכא למימר קודם הסתירה נתרצית לו

Tosfos says in the name of Yerushalmi we have to add on the time it takes for them to remove their vestige:

בירושלמי כל אלין שיעורין אחר התרת סינר

The Minchas Yitchak 4,94 says this time of seclusion is 5 minutes,

Though the Dvar Halacha teshuva 11 says that this time is merely 35 seconds (one could assume this does not include removing vestiges)

share|improve this answer

edited Jan 29 at 18:22

yosefkorn

585210

answered Jan 28 at 23:10

user15464user15464

5,6751069

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Minchas yitzchak only says that to be machmir and be yotzei midei safek. even according to him, it should be longer. And I don't know who the devar halacha is but there is no way that you can roast an egg and swallow it in 35 seconds.
  
  – רבות מחשבות
  Jan 29 at 0:43
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @רבותמחשבות do you mean 5 minutes is Machmir to make sure the Chosson satys with the Kalla in the Yichud room?
  
  – user15464
  Jan 29 at 0:46
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I mean I read the teshuvah and he says that this shitah would be hard to approximate, and the 5 minutes would be yotzei midei safek (it sounds like for a case of sotah, not yichud, and 5 minutes would be the minimum shiur)
  
  – רבות מחשבות
  Jan 29 at 0:49
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  note that many poskim understand the shiur of yichud in general to be longer than the shiur of yichud by a sotah, see R' Moshe's teshuvah.
  
  – רבות מחשבות
  Jan 29 at 0:49
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @רבותמחשבות also remember tosfos who says taking of the clothes is not included in the time, i assume 35 seconds is probably when they are at such a stage
  
  – user15464
  Jan 29 at 0:54
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 9 more comments

5

5

5

Rambam Hilchos Sotah 1,2 Paskens like Rabbi Akiva the time for seclusion is to fry an egg and swallow it.

שהתה עמו כדי טומאה שהוא כדי לצלות ביצה ולגמעה הרי זו אסורה על בעלה עד שתשתה מי המרים ויבדק הדבר

Kesef Mishna

ומה שכתב שהוא כדי לצלות ביצה ולגמעה. ברייתא שם (דף ד') פלוגתא ופסק כר"ע:

Rashi Sotah 4a explains that with Sotah who has a history of being with this man we assume she was already been seduced before seclusion so we don't include seduction time :

טומאה ביאה לחודה דאיכא למימר קודם הסתירה נתרצית לו

Tosfos says in the name of Yerushalmi we have to add on the time it takes for them to remove their vestige:

בירושלמי כל אלין שיעורין אחר התרת סינר

The Minchas Yitchak 4,94 says this time of seclusion is 5 minutes,

Though the Dvar Halacha teshuva 11 says that this time is merely 35 seconds (one could assume this does not include removing vestiges)

share|improve this answer

edited Jan 29 at 18:22

yosefkorn

585210

answered Jan 28 at 23:10

user15464user15464

5,6751069

Rambam Hilchos Sotah 1,2 Paskens like Rabbi Akiva the time for seclusion is to fry an egg and swallow it.

שהתה עמו כדי טומאה שהוא כדי לצלות ביצה ולגמעה הרי זו אסורה על בעלה עד שתשתה מי המרים ויבדק הדבר

Kesef Mishna

ומה שכתב שהוא כדי לצלות ביצה ולגמעה. ברייתא שם (דף ד') פלוגתא ופסק כר"ע:

Rashi Sotah 4a explains that with Sotah who has a history of being with this man we assume she was already been seduced before seclusion so we don't include seduction time :

טומאה ביאה לחודה דאיכא למימר קודם הסתירה נתרצית לו

Tosfos says in the name of Yerushalmi we have to add on the time it takes for them to remove their vestige:

בירושלמי כל אלין שיעורין אחר התרת סינר

The Minchas Yitchak 4,94 says this time of seclusion is 5 minutes,

Though the Dvar Halacha teshuva 11 says that this time is merely 35 seconds (one could assume this does not include removing vestiges)

share|improve this answer

edited Jan 29 at 18:22

yosefkorn

585210

answered Jan 28 at 23:10

user15464user15464

5,6751069

share|improve this answer

share|improve this answer

edited Jan 29 at 18:22

yosefkorn

585210

edited Jan 29 at 18:22

yosefkorn

585210

edited Jan 29 at 18:22

yosefkorn

585210

585210

answered Jan 28 at 23:10

user15464user15464

5,6751069

answered Jan 28 at 23:10

user15464user15464

5,6751069

answered Jan 28 at 23:10

user15464user15464

5,6751069

5,6751069

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Minchas yitzchak only says that to be machmir and be yotzei midei safek. even according to him, it should be longer. And I don't know who the devar halacha is but there is no way that you can roast an egg and swallow it in 35 seconds.
  
  – רבות מחשבות
  Jan 29 at 0:43
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @רבותמחשבות do you mean 5 minutes is Machmir to make sure the Chosson satys with the Kalla in the Yichud room?
  
  – user15464
  Jan 29 at 0:46
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I mean I read the teshuvah and he says that this shitah would be hard to approximate, and the 5 minutes would be yotzei midei safek (it sounds like for a case of sotah, not yichud, and 5 minutes would be the minimum shiur)
  
  – רבות מחשבות
  Jan 29 at 0:49
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  note that many poskim understand the shiur of yichud in general to be longer than the shiur of yichud by a sotah, see R' Moshe's teshuvah.
  
  – רבות מחשבות
  Jan 29 at 0:49
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @רבותמחשבות also remember tosfos who says taking of the clothes is not included in the time, i assume 35 seconds is probably when they are at such a stage
  
  – user15464
  Jan 29 at 0:54
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 9 more comments

• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Minchas yitzchak only says that to be machmir and be yotzei midei safek. even according to him, it should be longer. And I don't know who the devar halacha is but there is no way that you can roast an egg and swallow it in 35 seconds.
  
  – רבות מחשבות
  Jan 29 at 0:43
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @רבותמחשבות do you mean 5 minutes is Machmir to make sure the Chosson satys with the Kalla in the Yichud room?
  
  – user15464
  Jan 29 at 0:46
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  I mean I read the teshuvah and he says that this shitah would be hard to approximate, and the 5 minutes would be yotzei midei safek (it sounds like for a case of sotah, not yichud, and 5 minutes would be the minimum shiur)
  
  – רבות מחשבות
  Jan 29 at 0:49
  
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  note that many poskim understand the shiur of yichud in general to be longer than the shiur of yichud by a sotah, see R' Moshe's teshuvah.
  
  – רבות מחשבות
  Jan 29 at 0:49
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @רבותמחשבות also remember tosfos who says taking of the clothes is not included in the time, i assume 35 seconds is probably when they are at such a stage
  
  – user15464
  Jan 29 at 0:54
  
  
  

  
  
  
  

1

1

Minchas yitzchak only says that to be machmir and be yotzei midei safek. even according to him, it should be longer. And I don't know who the devar halacha is but there is no way that you can roast an egg and swallow it in 35 seconds.

– רבות מחשבות
Jan 29 at 0:43

Minchas yitzchak only says that to be machmir and be yotzei midei safek. even according to him, it should be longer. And I don't know who the devar halacha is but there is no way that you can roast an egg and swallow it in 35 seconds.

– רבות מחשבות
Jan 29 at 0:43

1

1

@רבותמחשבות do you mean 5 minutes is Machmir to make sure the Chosson satys with the Kalla in the Yichud room?

– user15464
Jan 29 at 0:46

@רבותמחשבות do you mean 5 minutes is Machmir to make sure the Chosson satys with the Kalla in the Yichud room?

– user15464
Jan 29 at 0:46

I mean I read the teshuvah and he says that this shitah would be hard to approximate, and the 5 minutes would be yotzei midei safek (it sounds like for a case of sotah, not yichud, and 5 minutes would be the minimum shiur)

– רבות מחשבות
Jan 29 at 0:49

I mean I read the teshuvah and he says that this shitah would be hard to approximate, and the 5 minutes would be yotzei midei safek (it sounds like for a case of sotah, not yichud, and 5 minutes would be the minimum shiur)

– רבות מחשבות
Jan 29 at 0:49

1

1

note that many poskim understand the shiur of yichud in general to be longer than the shiur of yichud by a sotah, see R' Moshe's teshuvah.

– רבות מחשבות
Jan 29 at 0:49

note that many poskim understand the shiur of yichud in general to be longer than the shiur of yichud by a sotah, see R' Moshe's teshuvah.

– רבות מחשבות
Jan 29 at 0:49

@רבותמחשבות also remember tosfos who says taking of the clothes is not included in the time, i assume 35 seconds is probably when they are at such a stage

– user15464
Jan 29 at 0:54

@רבותמחשבות also remember tosfos who says taking of the clothes is not included in the time, i assume 35 seconds is probably when they are at such a stage

– user15464
Jan 29 at 0:54

 | 
show 9 more comments

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